1BC Civ Forums / Civilization III Discussion / CivIII Discussion / Diplomatic Chat

Renegotiating deals... hmm

Comedy Dave — Sat, 08 May 2004 05:11:10 GMT

Just found something quite interesting...C3C, V1.22I'm trading my luxuries for gold per turn, and have the 'always renegotiate deals' option on.Sometimes I find that when you renegotiate deals manually (speaking to the AI after the 20th turn, before it pops up automatically) the AI will not want to accept - the advisor says no way.However, if you end that turn and instead let the deal pop up automatically to renegotiate, the AI will usually accept the deal - say 90% of the time.If you try and alter the terms, before you even change anything the advisor then says 'no way'.I tested this out by loading and saving and found this happens fairly often.Is this a bug that allows you to rip off the AI? One AI player that was getting bashed badly was still happy to give me 40gold per turn - I'm sure all of his money. Although he would not accept if I manually tried to renegotiate.I'll see if I can find a save to post...Edit: Yay - Post 100! [IMG]emot/Violent/violent011.gif[/IMG]

Trading for Tech's question

Gargamel — Mon, 09 Oct 2006 14:32:01 GMT

Was wondering if this strategy/idea would result in a major Rep hit or not..

So, let's say you decide to trade your surplus luxury/strategic resource to an AI player for some technologies and/or lump sum of gold. Seems reasonable...

Now what if, 1 turn after the trade, you rampage through your own territory, destroying all access to said luxury/resource, thereby eliminating the trade route...

Does the trade automatically pick back up once you rebuild the roads? Do you take significant rep hits?

Anyone ever try this?

Thanks!

Need to stop Byzantines from building UN

Caesius — Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:23:22 GMT

Okay, so I'm playing a Monarch game on a Huge map and have recently entered the modern era. I started out with 15 rivals and am down to just 8 [9 actually, but China doesn't have any cities]. I've eliminated the Celts, Babylonians, Germans, Iroquois, Ottomans, Chinese, and Persians from the game [although the Persians were eliminated by the Carthaginians]. I've become extremely powerful and control 66% of the world's population, 42% of the world's area [even though my continent is larger than the other continent], 50% of the world's power, and have twice the score of the next greatest civilization, the Byzantines. Currently the bulk of my military is composed of 84 tanks, 62 mech infantries, 3 carriers, 1 destroyer, 22 cruisers, and 13 bombers. The Byzantines have 19 cavalry, 9 tanks, 81 mech infantries, 59 infantries, 10 artilleries, 6 destroyers, 1 bomber, 5 guerillas and 3 flak. A turn or two ago the Byzantines began building the UN in Constantinople - a coastal, size 13 metropolis. A lesser distance away from my continent are the towns of Septum [size 1] and Naissus [size 3] with railroads leading straight to Constantinople and radar towers dotting the way. It's about 6-8 turns to Septum, and I'll probably be able to take Septum and possibly Naissus within a few turns.However, I'm faced with a formidible obstacle: Even if I throw all of my tanks and mechs at Contantinople, if they station upwards of 40 mechs and infantries there, my entire force will almost certainly be destroyed in the assault, unless they're almost all conscripts [which looks to be so, since they were recently in a very long war with Korea in which they lost two cities and their border cities are all towns]. Furthermore, their closest neighbor by land is Korea, who have 7 cavalry, 49 infantry, 12 artillery, 2 destroyers, 1 bomber, and 14 geurillas - obviously not enough even if we were to attack jointly, which seems unlikely anyway as Korea absolutely despises me along with everybody else.I'm currently building The Internet in Amsterdam and will be done in 11 turns. Should I switch to building the UN? How exactly does a diplomatic victory [or impending defeat in this case] work? Either way, I could possibly bribe other civs to vote for me since I control most of the luxuries in the world, but I doubt that will help my rep as so many people are still incredibly angry with me. So what should I do?

Defending Borders?

Sparhawk — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 00:05:11 GMT

What do most of you do for defending a border? In some of my games the Russians seem to alway's push there luck by coming into my territory.They alway's apologize but to continue through my area. Declaring war on them is not alway's an answer and also slows any goals that I might have. Should there intrusion be overlooked or should I not let them through my area?If viewed as a chess board I would not allow them to pass through my territory to grow on the other side of me. I try to use my territory as a wall to restrict movement.Is this a washed up stratagy? :rolleyes:

Allies, get your Allies whiles they're still fresh

Seared — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:57:44 GMT

My 2nd post on these forums... yay!The comments I've got from my little story seem to suggest that very few people play a diplomatic game like I do. Theres always 1 or maybe 2 civilizations out there that can make great allies, from anything to assisting you in a war or simply sharing techs and trading resources. Remember the vote to end the game is 1 vote per civ and has nothing to do with your culture or power.To gain these allies... Usually when you have luxury resources you'll have 6-8 of them extra sitting around doing nothing. When trade finally becomes possible with all nations (navigation) very few nations will actually be able to pay any amount of gold per turn for your luxuries. So what else do you do with them? Make some friends. A civilization thats annoyed with you becomes polite after recieving 20 turns of free silks, horses, or some other somewhat useless to you but very helpful to them resource. Remember, if your going for an ally giving them gunpowder is a good thing. The nation you choose to do this with is also a big factor. Never try to ally yourself with a nation larger than you (or near the same size). Go for one thats slightly smaller and perhaps a bit less technologically advanced. A civilization stranded on their own island is a good start. Preferably find one thats also being threatened by another nation (in my game I used the byzantines as they were low tech and being threatened by the much larger celtics). Now your asking me why not just crush the low tech/low powered civ rather then allying with it. Well, quite simply they are more effective on their own then under your control. If you were to take those cities they would make 0 cash and 1 production with the rest as corruption. And what better way to combat a cheating AI by siccing one of the cheating AI's on it. And one final comment, some civilizations will ally themselves with you quicker then others. As a dumb (but mostly correct) rule of thumb, if it has a female leader, they will be more receptive to your ally offers. French, Spanish, Byzantines, and Egyptians are the ones I try to pick out when I can. It's more coincidence that they have female leaders, but hey if it works (when in rome hey?). They just have lower agression ratings then other civilizations. Never try to ally with a militaristic civlization, it just doesn't work.This strategy is used on Demi-God skill level... I'm unsure how it would work on other skill levels, but I imagine it would be easier talking them into a protection pact on easier difficulties.

Holding on with Diplomacy

Seared — Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:32:50 GMT

My most recent game (started earlier today) was another diety island attempt for me and rather than a warfare attempt on my behalf, I went the diplomatic route. I can't beleive I'm getting away like this... The germans are the only ones trying to push me around, but as long as I keep luxury trade going, the most he's done is demand 20 gold. The celts keep declaring war, but whatever. I used portugal to prompt my golden age and I beleive that war is currently outstanding... But that won't go anywhere.Small islands and average AI agression.

Abrupt War

LNorth — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:21:00 GMT

It may be my imagination, but it seems to me that the AI leaders declare war much more abruptly with no prior clue they did in Civ 3. In the old days they would at least give you an option of giving them something for nothing or having a war but at least in the games I have played so far, they just come up and say "that's it, we are at war" and give you no out. This has happened with both Mao and Alex the Greek. While their attitude was shown as annoyed, they are that way most of the time. Also, the book says you have the option of talking with them or not but so far, they just pop up on the screen and make their demands or offers. What happened to the foreign minister announcing them? For that matter I no longer know what my foreign minister even looks like.

Why do all the AIs pick on me?

garethmann — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 00:42:19 GMT

Whay an earth does every other civilization want to wage war against me and noone else?Even civilizations on the other side of the globe will send huge armies through the territories of like 5 other AI civs just to get to me!I am constantly on the defensive, I am only just able to hold them all off. But I am sure that they would fare much better if they concentrated on fighting their neighbours rather than traveling all the way across the globe to fight me!I am playing the Teturkan Test of Time scenario game (but only on Chieftan).I am only like the third most powerful civ, yet they all want to gang up on me! Any ideas why? I almost never sneak attack my oponents so my reputation must be good. I do not have many embassies though, do these help?

Espionage and its effect on Diplomacy

RenOfHeavens — Thu, 20 May 2004 19:55:55 GMT

Apologies if this has been dealt with before.Anyway, I'm currently playing a game as the Japanes, and about three turns ago I stole a tech from the Romans. I've never tried this before, and I seemed to succeed without being caught. But, I'm now wondering if they do know about it, as they're a little frosty with me - but then this could be down to the fact that I signed a peace deal with the Zulus after getting the Romans to join the war against them.To cut a long story short, how do you know if they know you stole from them? Would you find out immediately, or do they only learn after time? And how does it affect your standing with the other civs?Thanks in advance for any help.

Finally! A good use for Spies!

Dark Vengeance — Mon, 05 Jan 2004 03:06:28 GMT

This really goes under espionage, but we don't have a category for that. (Probably a good thing since it wouldn't be very large.) ;) I'll set up the scenario. C3C - Myself, Greece and Germany share a very large continent - of which I have about 2/3 of it. It was still large enough for both of them to have a good size empire - about 20 - 25 cities each. I haven't counted my cities, but let's just say that many of them have a 2 at the end of the name. (I don't rename them.) Anyway....When Greece pulled a sneak attack, I took three of her cities and she begged for peace. As the Arabians, I didn't yet have my UU (or GA) and so, writing their name in my little red book, brokered a reasonable peace settlement. (Read they gave me money.)Once I found, secured and connected the horses, my UU was ready ... and Greece was waiting. I acquired Cavalry quickly through some good deals and, after building 5 or 6 UUs, built many Cavs. I declared war and struck with my UU. Hello GA! A couple of my UU's went elite, so I didn't upgrade them to Cavs hoping to get a GL. Never did. :mad: I captured a couple more cities and, since my people were getting too unhappy, had to settle for peace again. A real bummer, but I knew there would be another time....A short time later, ol' Alex must've been pretty peaved and started diss'n Germany - which led to war. Cool! I'll sit back and watch to see what happens and increase my research rate towards Tanks and get some spies planted. Because of a relatively small border, mine was sealed off from either of them crossing. Oh yeah! Greece was between myself and Germany. Hehe.After a while, Germany made significant headway and captured a Greek town very close to one of the ones I had captured (Athens) and, even though he only had riflemen, was too close for me. By now, I had tanks - a few of them and was just itching to get me a GL. After contemplating an out-and-out attack, I decided against it since the "just taken" city wasn't within good striking distance (mountains and hills on my side), but was ripe for the taking. If I could capture it though, I had a sufficient amount of full-health Calvary that could get there that turn and defend the city (probably) until other units two moves away could get there. One problem, I didn't know [i]what[/i] kind of units were on the other side - nor how many - but the best they could be is riflemen and not that many since Greece and Germany had a very long border. I had successfully planted a spy (earlier) in Greece and Germany. So, I figured why not give it a try. The town was a size three and shouldn't cost too much. Shift-E - select Germany - select Initiate Propaganda - select the town - execute - wam! bam! Hello! For a measely 167 gold, I had me a town defended by one regular infantry, and shortly thereafter - 12 Calvary (unfortified). Germany had 6 riflemen and a spearman which would have enter the city on the next turn. Woo hoo! And those Greeks were more than glad to have me there - freeing them of their oppressors! Next turn, that old German coot captured another Greek town close to another I had captured then moved deeper into my non-barred territory (since the take-over). Now that wasn't nice! So, I did the same thing with the other town (and got it), moved in several more units (more than enough) and then politely ;) demanded that he leave my territory. He must've been drunk with something, because he declared war. Big mistake - for him. Good for me. Because of him, I now have two armies (and the Heroic Epic), am slowly but surely closing him in and "shrinking" the size of the border between he and I. In the process, Greece is down to 5 cities and Germany is down to 4 or 5.That's the first time I've ever been able to use propaganda successfully - in civ3.The other continent now only has the Carthiginians and Russians - down from them, Spain and the Mongols. This should be interesting! :D

Differing Alliances

RedFox — Tue, 07 Sep 2004 08:29:49 GMT

I was at the end of a turn on my current game when I always save in the latter stages of the game. Once I have subs out and about I make sure I can roll-back just in case another Civ decides to bang right into me!Anyway, the Germans popped up during the AI's turn asking to renew an ROP agreement. I did so and then went on to offer him some oil to see what he would pay (they are at war with the Persians and I'm arming both sides as they are rivals). The Germans will have oil soon anyway and I have a modern armour sat on their other, more accessible source (the benefits of an ROP agreement!). I accidentally clicked on "Accept this gift..." amidst much swearing. I had to wait until the AI finished before I could reload during which time the Germans allied with India against the Persians. Eventually I re-loaded (getting over 100GPT off the Germans) and this time the Germans allied with the Americans against the Persians. Suits me down to the ground as the Americans are on my continent and it will divert their resources whilst I build up my military to throw them off my land!

Fun Fun Fun with diplomacy

Comedy Dave — Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:21:28 GMT

Ok, here's the situation. Been playing NuclearCow's unofficial June game of the month as the Iroquois - yes I know it's now August, been hard to find enough time to play.Anyway, was very amused by my 'diplomatic' skills recently during play.I'm #1 in the world, and the Inca are #2. The Inca thought it would be fun to demand some ivory from me. I refused, so they declared war on me!The game is on a large map, and there are about 10-12 other surviving civs remaining. The Inca are halfway around the world away from me, so they won't get me anytime soon.So I did 'the rounds', asking each civ to ally with me against the Inca. It didn't cost much, a luxury here, a resource there. Finally everyone was at war with the Inca! The best bit was that it didn't cost me any techs or gold - looks like the Inca weren't very popular! ;)Soooo... now my best rival is being beaten down by all the other civs, whilst I carry on getting bigger and stronger. Everyone loves me too!I love it when a plan comes together... :cool:

Dear Ms. Civ.

HistoryDude — Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:02:09 GMT

Does an AI ever call a vote once they've built the U.N.?Signed,Hopeful in Springfield. :D

Trading techs...a must for higher levels

greenspan — Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:13:53 GMT

I’m sure someone has already said this at some point, but it seems to me that one of the big differences between lower level games and higher level games (Emperor+) is the necessity of trading techs.When I started playing Civ III, I would almost never trade techs. On rare occasions when I didn't complete a wonder before another civ, and could get a wonder-enabling tech so I didn't waste shields, I would likely trade for that tech. Of course, that was in the early days, when I was a Wonder-fixated newbie (an entirely different topic).Anyway, at the higher levels, you HAVE to trade techs. There's just no way around it. In fact, you not only have to trade techs, but you have to learn to get the maximum out of your trades. I would say that developing trading skills at the Regent and Monarch levels is probably the best thing you can do to win at higher levels. Yes, I know that efficiently managing workers can make a HUGE difference in success, and I know that warmongering skills are essential at any level above Monarch, but...regardless of your style, I think it may be next to impossible to win higher-level games without well-developed trading skills.No specific examples...just wish someone had told me that in my early days of Civ III. If they had, I likely would have been able to compete at higher levels much sooner.

Accept this deal or...

Seared — Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:36:41 GMT

Pay the consequences! I thought I'd write a quick post on how to threaten.For the most case, threats in Civ3 don't give good results. The most that happens is you get 10 gold or they reject your silly demand and they get slightly more annoyed with you... Which gets you nowhere what so ever. So heres a quick method to follow.First thing, you're not going to get huge things with demands and the damage that demanding will cause to your relationship with that civ... is it really worth it? So why simply demand?Ensure that you're demanding from a civ that couldn't fight a war vs you... At very least if you were at war with them, they'd be paying you alot of gold for peace. The bigger the gap between you and them the better. That 'accept this deal or pay the consequences' option in the diplomacy screen... Ya NEVER press that. When in the negotiation screen, at the bottom you'll see an option saying 'active'. Click on that and it'll display all current trades and treaties signed with this civ. Click on the peace (remember peace treaties have a minimum 20 turns... Don't click on it until after this time frame is up)... It will ask you if you wish to renegotiate this deal. Click yes... It's much easier to get what you want by renegotiating peace than simply demanding it. If you don't come to a deal, you will be at war... and the AI does know this. Now it's like a standard peace negotiation... Ask for what you want. If you don't get what you want, well exit negotiations and war is declared. I'm often able to get a tech and some gold by doing this... I've even had an island city surrendered to me.I'm not yet sure what type of diplomatic effects this renegotiation has yet... I'd imagine it would be harmful to your relationship with that civ atleast. But this works much better than just demanding.

What Is It Worth To You?

HistoryDude — Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:49:20 GMT

Inspired by Seared's post with hints to winning diplomatically, I have another question regarding diplomacy and trade.What are thoughts on what you are willing to pay/trade for tech and luxuries? Reading past stories, I've seen some that are willing to pay just about anything to try and keep up, some that moderate depending on what the AI is offering vs. asking, and some like me that tend to be very picky and wait for the bargains or "fair" deals (but then again, I'm often way behind tech-wise, so perhaps that's not a great strategy?). TIA

Establishing an Embassy

russky714 — Tue, 11 May 2004 13:01:01 GMT

I am playing Civ 3 vanilla and I have never really used diplomacy because - I can't figure out how to establish an embassy!I always get that message after discovering writing, but I never have enough money at that point to start an embassy, even if I wanted to. Then later on, I can never get that screen to pop up again. I am sure I am missing something really obvious, but can someone please help! P.S. remember, I am using civ 3 vanilla

Seared's Diplomacy Guide

Seared — Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:26:11 GMT

Okay, I thought about it and figured why not write up my general diplomacy guide... Enough people have asked questions about the AI and diplomacy, so here it is.I'll start with early diplomacy:First thing first, explore and know your starting position... Including any nearby AI's. It is important to know all the sorrounding terrain. Just scout it once so it appears on your map, no need to leave a unit nearby. This way when you discover a tech that reveals a new resource, lets say iron working, you can look through that AI's territory to see if they have that resource. Who has what resources is very important early on.3 routes-On your own island? Well, there really aren't any diplomatic relations are there? go back and play your game.. come back later ;)-You and one other sharing an island? My preference is attack :) but from a diplomatic terms theres 2 key things to remember. #1 if your going to declare war, just do it! Don't move you units in until he asks you to leave then declare war and don't simply attack without the war declaration. Contact them and demand something. If you're not sure if you want war with them, ask for a few gold... If you want a war demand all his cities! After the demand is rejected, then declare war (I'm not sure if the demand does anything, but I do notice you get treated differently if you just call em up and declare war). I would then beat them into the dust if you can.. don't let them survive. If you accept a surrender offer (4 techs or something.. depends on your skill level, on diety I took 7 from the vikings when they surrendered) never break the peace treay until all 20 turns are complete (That is very important... attacking after taking a surrender will mean no civ will surrender again).Your other option...You could want to be peaceful? This is actually really hard to do. If there is a resource, more then likely you'll both have your sources of it... So trade is hard. Exchange techs whenever possible... This is a hard relationship to maintain (it's why I like option 1)-You and several others on a landmass. This is a bit more complicated. Scout what you can and as much as you can... More than one civ on a landmass will mean there will be a few luxuries around... scout and find those first. Populate the area around these luxuries fast if you can... especially those inbetween you and another civ. You have 2 choices... War or peace? If you want to be peaceful, create embassies wherever you can and get to mapmaking asap (If you start with the alphabet, set taxes to 90% and 10% science and let that go... you'll build up a nice treasury and have alot of money for embassies. Unless you're on Diety you'll also be the first to writing. After writing set you science to 100% if you can and goto philosophy and take mapmaking as the free tech). Embassies will show you their capitols and general starting areas along with showing whos at war with who. It's very helpful to know whos at war with who early in the game. After getting mapmaking, trade the tech around and build a harbor in any city (coastal of course). This will allow for trading between you and the other via harbors early (really, who builds roads to each others capitols early?). Anytime you can, trade whatever you can. If a war does breakout (you'll know about it), avoid what you can and expand as much as possible. If their is war... I'll often tagteam with another AI and crush another civ together. Allying early and killing off a civ creates a good diplomatic foundation based on trust and devastation ;)Your other choice is to actively seek a war. Avoid writing (trade for it later) and go towards ironworking (or towards your UU). The hardest desicion for an early attack is determining who to attack. I prefer to go after one who's unique unit comes in the middle ages (anyone who uses a knight or the dutch) and is not militaristic. Sometimes geography will help you decide... one that lacks iron in their territory is a good choice, or one that you share the only border with is also a good choice (A civ that contacts you and noone else). Once again, declare war through diplomacy first. It's important that you get writing and mapmaking soon so you may make embassies and harbors for trade... The goal is to trade with other civs as much as possible (appease them with gifts if nessacary) while attacking another one. Only be at war with one civ early.. Unless absolutely nessacary. Remember the normal declaring war process. Avoid making alliances against that civ... The best result is you destroy them yourselves (and take all their territory yourself)... It's also very important . Keep the others happy with luxury trade (gifts if they've got nothing else to offer) and science trade.

How Do You Keep Them At Bay Early?

HistoryDude — Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:53:26 GMT

Okay, I'm getting started on some game (regent level); moving along fine; contact with a few other civs; have traded techs with them; done nothing to tick them off; don't have roads to them yet, so can't trade res./lux.; there's plenty of land for growth; and then out of nowhere, one of them (usually the biggest) asks to talk, I say "great," and they threaten...which I usually never give into, and then...BAM...we're at war. Since its early, I can survive most of the time but at seriously hindering my progress for the later stages, but often I just get trampled like a flower?!?So, is there a way to keep them at bay early on?

Playing for the diplomatic win

Seared — Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:36:54 GMT

With the very rare exception, most of my wins are diplomatic victories... I've actually won one game where all but one civ voted for me in the UN elections. At first it confused me how anyone gained any other style of victory (I had to decline it once just to see a domination victory), but it turns out alot of it is based on my style of play.One key thing to remember... If your going to lose, it's going to be to ONE AI... Not a combination of (unless you get taken down by a few military alliances).With that in mind, I heavily rely on 2 strats (diplomatically atleast).1. I can't stress how important it is to keep a balance of power. The mongols and the Ottomans are sitting on the same island. Lets say they each own 15 cities. Now 15 cities... Thats nothing too big. They could be a cultural threat or the sort, but production/size/military... they just won't rank that high. However, if the Ottomans got their sipahi and take over the Mongols, they now have 30 cities on an island which is well enough to produce a huge military and research at a fast rate and be a real threat of winning the game before you can. Keeping this island divided between the 2 civs is extremely important... Keeping good scouting tabs (with boats on the shoreline or diplomatic info through embassies) is helpful so you can tell which side to support (I often use score). Be willing to give anything from techs and resources to money and luxuries to ensure that this power stays balanced. I've caught myself before supporting one side too much and having to flip flop to support the other side. Remember horses are offensive units only, so don't give away horses unless it's obvious who is winning.2. Some civs have no right even being considered a civ. These ones are usually isolated on an island, but sometimes they're on a continent with others. They're so far behind in tech and military it's not even funny (err.. correction, it is kinda funny). They have no possible chance of winning this game, so why not use them? If you really want you could go off and take them over in a quick 2 turn blitz... but why? Their cities will actually cost more in maintanence then they'd ever create... They'll be so corrupt... Theres really no point in owning these cities. Curiously enough these guys also have the strange tendancy to acquire alot of resources (As an example, the English in my Roman Uber Alles game had 3 lurxuries and were isolated on some tiny island). So if you have industialization, does it really matter if you just gave away construction to get 1 luxury? Whoopie who cares if this is a huge rip off... you just got another luxury.What occours when the united nations is built-All these tiny civs that you've supported and gave stuff too (the ones way behind with no hope of winning), they vote for you-All the underpowered civs that you aided in fighting their neighboors (You need not declare war, it's the donations they'll remember) will vote for you as well.That alone usually includes half the civs in the game, and a diplomatic win for you. From an 'obtaining a win' standpoint, you're really only playing vs the top 2 or 3 civs in the game (I go by score normally). Thes rest of them are AI toys to be manipulated as you need or see fit.

Suppose it was you...

RabiAkiva — Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:40:54 GMT

There is this island continent and it is exclusively inhabited by the French. By the time the French and the rest of the world discover each other, no place is left for settlement on this land. Therefore, unless the French have harbors, trade is out of the question. Right? Another interesting detail: the French continent is the only place in the World where Ivory is to be found, and there it lies in abundance; 5 or 6 sources.Suppose it was you... But wait. Yet another detail, one that comes with the set of affairs: the French are behind in Tech with regards to the rest of the world. They do not even have Map Making; they are in the beginning of Ancient Time. That is normal, they were isolated until the middle ages.Fine. Suppose it was you and not the AI Joan, miss fancy hairdo, of Arc.... No, let me paint the picture even more clearly. The isolation has not just been bad for the French. They were able to expand without competition. And there is more. Another subcontinent, entirely unclaimed is two tiles away from their island, whereas the rest of civs (Japan, Persia, India, China, Babylon, Zululand and the remote and yet unknown English) are much farther away from this virgin soil. Hence, the French, score great on the Histograph. They are only behind India which settled the heart of the mainland, but other than that, they have place #2 for grabs.Now, suppose it was you. What would you say you need? You need tech, you need production. I tell you what the French need: they need money. And think about it, they are commercial, they should understand about money.So suppose it was you and not the moronic Saint. Wouldn't you say that building harbors (at least one) and market that Ivory would be the first priority thing to do? Don't you agree? Then why for Sid's sake, with the AI at the helm, Joan takes ages, a g e s , did I say ages? She takes eras to build a harbor?! As a matter of fact I am not even sure whether she built a harbor or an airport, that is how long she waited.And until then, I have opened my diplomacy screen with her, every single turn. To see if Ivory had become available. To see if I could help her in some way. I sold her tech for next to nothing, really! I just didn't want to go to war with her. I saw no gain in the rep hit and the capture of that terrain. I felt that buying Ivory would be better. Let the French be a market for my goods -- I have plenty but Ivory.And then, in modern times. She finally, finally does it, be it harbor, be it airport, she opened up the trade routes to the rest of the world. Finally the debilitating isolation opens up. I notice that at the next turn when I open the diplomacy screen: Ivory has become available! But to my horror, she has already sold it to others. Ivory sources figure 0 and she doesn't sell at any price.Suppose it was you. Forget about her tardiness, let's talk about the deal. Suppose your trade routes opens up, you have a surplus luxury that everybody is ready to buy. Wouldn't you sell it to the highest bidder? Wouldn't you sell it to #1? To filthy rich India, who is peaceful and has been helping your development more than all the others together?Or forget about India. Wouldn't you at least ask everybody what they offer, including India?But she didn't. She didn't ask me -- I was Gandhi of course. She just gave the precious stuff to the measly Zulus for free, when I would have jump started her to second place with techs and money.What is it with the AI? And a commercial AI at that, missing trade opportunities like that? I would have financed and built the harbor in France myself, had I been given the chance. AND paid in addition a rich price for the Ivory.It just made me realize again that diplomacy is too superficial in Civ3. I want to be able to strike more detailed deals with the AI. I want to be able to take options on upcoming techs, on resources. I want to be able to have auctions and attend them. I want to be able to give and receive development aid.The moment I saw her, I already wanted to go to Joan and tell her: Mon Cherie, allow me to buy you a harbor and I'll pay you handsomely for some of that Ivory of yours. You want more? You want ot be equal in tech? You want cities? Whatever, at least allow us to discuss it. Now I had to sit and wait and drool in front of the closed shop for thousands of years.Please, don't get me wrong, I am perfectly willing to accept this if it would be right from the French perspective. That is why I am asking you. Suppose it was you, right? Suppose... The deal I wanted to offer was the best for them as well! The French didn't get what they needed! 6000 years of mismanagement. If that isn't sad, I do not know what is.Not even my spies could change it: 'The French people are not susceptible to propaganda!' I guess the people get the leaders they deserve.sigh.

What remains?

sakyamuni — Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:40:23 GMT

Wondering what other players do when, say around year 1800 or so, you realize there's no hope of being the #1 winner of the game.Do you just quit at that point and restart? Is there perchance a sub-goal you shoot for at that point? Just curious, as I tend to want to quit once I see I can't win. Looking for something else to "play for" once I get my silly civ in this state of play..

Spies won me a game

jst666 — Thu, 08 Jan 2004 05:57:36 GMT

There's a recent post about whether the spies are any good. Just read the title.Did a strategic blunder earlier, with government types, which dropped me from my first-in-tech -spot. I was a commie, the first in tech war democratic Portugal, who were leading the space race. The portos also had UN. I was close to domination, but didn't dare to attack anyone, since I was sure I'd lose the UN vote, which were frequent. With some political tricks, I manipulated the vote to be indecisive. And I couldn't have gotten domination too fast, and couldn't have captured the UN.I used the spy to locate where the portuguese were building there SS components. Everytime, just few turns before they completed, I sabotaged production. I did this five or six times. Meanwhile some of my spies were caught, Portugues threw some spy ops on me as well. And I slowly caught up with space race.To cut it short, I got desperate when the the third space-racer runner up, Germany, started to catching up on me as well, since the sabotage on the Portuguesee took quite a bit from my budget already, so I couldn't have sabotaged 2 civs. Out of the blue, the Germany declared on Portuguese, and both parties stopped building SS components, and I limped to space race win.

My first PERFECT Diplomatic Victory (PTW)

Krulichus — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:16:51 GMT

I just finished a game (standard random world, continents, standard barb) regeant game with out declaring war on anyone ever! I (Romans) only had 1 war in the beginning (Greeks), in which they declared war on me, yet I conquered all but one island city. What was great was when they declared war on me (tried to ask them to leave territory) I immediately turned to the Egyptians who were next to them and my civ and asked for an alliance. They lived up to their share of the bargain (I had to give them a tech and money, but it was worth it) The Greeks couldn't take on both of us....so I ended up with the spoils. That was the beginning of our solidly forged friendship that would last the rest of the game (rare for me with continental neighbors). However, that would be the last alliance I ever needed (no MPPS or alliances with anyone for the rest of the game). Miraculously I actually was able to sign ROP pacts with every civ also towards the end. I was about 4th in score (not really big) but I was ahead in tech. I considered myself "neutral" in any situation that would come up beteen other civs....I wouldn't get involved. Since I was ahead in tech I went ahead to build the UN to see how many votes I'd get (it was clear to me I would definately win). 6 to 1 in my favor!! (Greeks abstained).Heck....I was SOOO Neutral, I managed to even forgo the need for SALTPETER in the late medeval/early industrial age. In my city defenses, I skipped straight from spearmen to INFANTRY (didn't upgrade...too expensive) Talk about the first time I was more gentle than Ghandi himself!!! My only edges were tech and most everyone being polite with me the whole game. I wanted to see if it was possible to build a game-long lasting trust with as many civs as possible by NEVER instigating war in any way and see if it would pay off in a BIG way at the election.....and it did! (6 to 1 in my favor)

Scape Goatin' - The diplomatic wars

Seared — Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:05:31 GMT

I've been working with this strategy for some time, and now that I got it down I've gotten some pretty good results... and sometimes humourus.Heres the strat:The key thing for this to work is facism and nationalism... Facism works for a great government for this as you can be at war for as long as ya need and nationalism opens up all diplomatic options.. Oh, and if you've broken a couple treaties or took a couple heavy reputation hits, theres no way you could do this.First you need to choose your scape goat. It can really be any civ you don't like... If theres one civ close to winning, do it to them. Picking out the largest nation isn't the worst idea.Second, Any races that you've had good relations with in the past sign a ROP and if you can, a MPP. Next bribe them into an embargo vs your chosen goat. Goto the next friendly civ and rinse/repeat.Third, Same thing, except try the unfriendly civs... You'd be amazed how often they'll join you vs your scape goat. Just try for an embargo... it will extend from there. The key thing is damaging the relatins between this unfriendly civ and your scape goat.Now that you have several allies (the more the better) start provoking your scape goat. Make demands, randomly run through his territory, sign more embargos vs him... so on so forth. When war finally does occour (AI's get pissed off easily), you'll be able to pull in your friendly civs into the war vs him (easiest if you have a MPP with them). You really only need to bribe 2 or 3 of your allies into this war... Remember that your allies will look out for their interests too. Since you've caused several other civ's to have poor relations with your scape goat, it won't be long until they start allying with each other vs your scape goat as well... Suddenly you have 6 or 7 civs all gracious towards you ;) kinda funHeres my game that I tried this on:I pick the French on continents and play away. Early in the game as always I picked on a civ starting near me and overwhelmed them (I should say this is on emperor and not diety... So twas a bit easier then I've done in the past). The game progressed as normal... I had several more cities then the others on my continent, but because of the difficulty we were all researching/producing at about the same rate.When facism came out I had a pretty full world map... and on the 2nd continent was the dutch... an extremely large and advanced nation. Seeing they would probably win if they keep going unchecked, I began a diplomatic war vs them. Their military would probably easily overwhelm me alone... So I began contacting all other civilizations and signing MPP's and embargos vs the dutch. It was somewhat costly (3k gold gave facism to pretty much everyone and industrialization to some), but in the end I had 7 civ's plus myself all hating the dutch and polite towards me. When the Dutch finally attacked me (I was doing alot of provoking :D ) I pulled 2 others into the war with me (England and Rome). The next turn England went off and allied the Mayans and Celts and brought them into the war, while I pulled the Japanese into it... The next turn the Romans allied the Egyptians, the Mayans brought in the babylonians, and I brought in the Spanish. In a matter of 3 turns the Dutch had just went to war with the world! It was quite funny to see my foriegn advisor all shocked when the English decided to ally Maya vs the Dutch. Although no real territory loss or gain occoured in the giant war (The Dutch were actually winning vs the 8 of us), I managed to rise as the leader of our 8 nation alliance. Anytime one of the allies would sign a peace with the Dutch, one of us would just bribe them into attacking them again.. One turn had the Japanese sign a treaty with Dutch and right after a box pops up saying the Egyptians and Japanese have signed an alliance vs the Dutch and back to war went the Japanese. This war lasted for what seemed forever and the tech gap between the Dutch and Us closed quickly... We actually beat them to Modern times.When I built the UN, I got a very easy diplomatic win... On a game I swear I was going to lose to the Dutch and their extremely high culture.Edit: Somehow I mixed up the Maya and the dutch a few times in here ;) fixed now

Navigation: opening the door for trade

Seared — Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:52:01 GMT

I'm just curious who else depends very heavily on trade income? After navigation comes out and you can trade with nearly everyone in the world I'm finding I'm able to do a huge tech jump simply by creating and negotiating trades. This gives a large enough income from trade alone to set my science to 100% and let the trade income asorb the maintenance costs. In my Diety skill level Roman Uber Alles, I was able to catch up and surpass all the AI's in technology soon after navigation came out... I've done it again in another game and I'm wondering who else does this.I got a rather well worked through pattern that I developed. If anyone want I could type it up and post up here.

When my war is done....

RabiAkiva — Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:28:00 GMT

I have the following scenario at hand. I am the French and have wiped out the Germans and am now in the process of ridding the world of the English. :DIn order to put the pressure on England when war started and they were still stronger than me, I sold techs to the rest of the Civs to declare war on England as well. Now we are 5 turns further and I have reduced Enlgand to three cities. England is sueing for peace and offers me a city with incense, a lux I do not have myself, as an additional spoil.Personally I think I have expanded enough. I like the deal; England would be reduced to two cities and will never be a threat again. ;)But the question is, what will my allies think of this peace treaty. They are still at war with England (never saw a serious battle though), so will it give me a rep hit accepting the peace treaty?Oh and another question while we are at it. In this war (everybody against the Brits) I have razed an Anglo-Saxon city or two, would that hurt my rep as normal, even though the rest of the world wars with them as well? :(

Buying Techs

Meko — Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:01:31 GMT

You probably know this already, but I just found out.Sometimes you [I]have[/I] to break treaties and once you do, you can't buy techs from other civs for a [I]loooong time[/I].But if you have a big army, all you have to do is go to the active treaties during negotiations and negotiate for peace. They're scared of your army and [I]now[/I] they're willing to sell you techs, in exchange for peace. :D

How Many Elections?

Maccabeus — Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:11:57 GMT

What's the most elections it's taken you to win one? Previously the election had always been make or break for me, but this game with Mao took three inconclusive elections to settle, partly due to the outbreak of war with Japan, then Rome.

Other civ's techs...

bluice — Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:47:05 GMT

How do you find out exactly what stage your opponets are on the tech tree?

Sid =Science Advisor?

Meko — Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:06:21 GMT

I just watched the bonus movie that came with civ3 gold edition(I didn't have a media player when I bought the game). I never knew how Sid, the creator of civ, looked like.

Joan and her Armee

ojsmada — Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:50:13 GMT

Joan d Arc has a shaved head, dog tags, and a green shirt with yellow letters that say ARMEE.Is that normal or is she just trying to scare the crap out of me. I've never seen here like that before

UN

jbfballrb — Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:23:21 GMT

what decides when the UN convenes? ive never understood it, and out of all the times ive built, only once has it asked to vote.

Queen Elizabeth hears all?

bluice — Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:00:59 GMT

Here is my question;I'm on Regent playing with 5 civs left on a standard archipelgo map, I met with Greece to propose a trade embargo with me against England(every1 was at peace, total peace). I asked what it would take for him to go along with my embargo and he said no way. That's fine, but then when I went to meet with England they had gone from Polite to Cautious. After a proposed trade deal she refused and went down to Annoyed, bad move hah? [I]Did Greece tell England behind my back about my backstabbing proposal? And if so why don't the sneaky buggers tell you when they have had an opponent try and backstab you?[/I][B]Shame, shame Greece![/B]

Does post-conflict destruction of a foreign city cause anger?

Downed_Leader — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:12:31 GMT

If the title does not speak for it self, the main question is does destroying a city you capture in war after having it for a while make the rep hit as if you razed it the moment you got it? (I didn't think this belonged in the AoW board so I put it here.)

Why does every1 always hate me?

bluice — Wed, 25 Jun 2003 02:53:40 GMT

In regent mode I can never please other civs no matter what, most I can do is Polite. Then after a few goes they are annoyed or furious again. The only thing I can think I did wrong was to destroy their cities instead of installing a new governer. And that was only on my neighbouring civs. I can't figure out when it will destroy the city or give me the option to install new governer could it be because I'm using the 1.21Patch?

Diplomatic screen is missing learders

Zahl — Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:11:19 GMT

How come that when you open the diplomatic creen with those heads of all the learders then you can't talk with all of them if there are more then 8 civs. I know I can contact them through soldiers but what if they arent close?

Is it possible to bribe your opponent out of being furious with you?

Haethurn — Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:28:13 GMT

I was trying to get a diplomatic victory but I was unable to because both England and India were furious with me and Russia voted for herself (as did I).I've noticed that no matter how much gold you give them, they will still be furious with you. I gave England 11550 gold and Elizabeth was still furious with me. Of course I went back to a previous save as soon as I got these results.So I ended up winning the space race in 2005 instead. I was just wondering if there is anything you can do besides waiting for a few centuries or so to get rid of a bad reputation.

Have you ever managed to bully AI?

Onyx Heart — Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:28:03 GMT

Hi,I was wondering have you ever managed to get anything from AI by demanding it? I've tried to demand money and maps from tiny AI empires with being number one CIV. Ieven had loads of troops behind the border ready to roll in but only thing I've managed to do is get them furious...

Gracious, yeah right

kangell — Fri, 16 May 2003 22:11:35 GMT

Ya'll know by now I usually go for a Diplomatic victory...well now I'm starting to see why some shun it.It took some careful tech trading, city micromanagement to make sure I got the UN. OK, going into the vote everyone but one is gracious, no problem right? First, it was one of those rare occasions (at least in my games) that 3 of the 6 were eligible to be elected. Three of us obviously voted for ourselves and how did the other 3 vote???? The two that were gracious towards me voted for Lincoln and the one polite dude voted for me! What's up with that?! Just ranting I suppose...now I guess it's on to the space race (vote was inconclusive). I don't think I'll be able to hang onBTW - I always give techs to underdogs regardless of game status (balance of power thing) and sure, I did sign a few ROPs at the last minute...but no REAL bribing . :p