1BC Civ Forums / Off Topic Discussions / More Than a Game, Civ in Real Life / World History

YouTube Favorite of the Day

Scipio Africanus — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:53:26 GMT

My God, how have we not started a thread like this yet?

Does somebody know how to post these as a playable vid clip in the text window here?

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OdAXTEWzvc&feature=related]French Mirage[/url]

I have to say I don't quite understand the use of the Moroccan(?) music, but it is excellent fit for the footage! :) Amazing.

Dungeon Girl

Scipio Africanus — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:09:48 GMT

I spotted this movie on the pay-per-view "Dungeon Girl" which is based on the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natascha_Kampusch]story of Natascha Kampusch[/url] the ten-year-old Vienna girl who was kidnapped by Wolfgang Prikopil on her way to school, and kept for eight years in a dungeon in his cellar adapted from an old bomb shelter.

This story is really just absolutely astounding . . .

Here is an interview of her with English subtitles

[youtube]YSZc5UR4H8s&featur[/youtube]

And part two of the same interview

[youtube]LyCDNkdejOA&feature[/youtube]

Do you guys know anything about this story?

Recasting History on the Vikings.

Locus Coeruleus — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:52:41 GMT

Haha.

Check this out.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3256539/Vikings-preferred-male-grooming-to-pillaging.html]Vikings not strictly as savage as often depicted[/url]

[quote]"A medieval chronicler, John of Wallingford, talking about the eleventh century, complained that the Danes were too clean - they combed their hair every day, washed every Saturday, and changed their clothes regularly."[/quote]

:w00t:

A fun read to waste time

frogmanFW — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:47:05 GMT

The British release UFO-related files. Watch out for the Gents in Black!:cool:

Do you believe?

Locus Coeruleus — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:39:57 GMT

I do.

The history channel was running a series this past saturday from the "Ufo Files:.

There were several reports from very, I would say, reputable witnesses, namely so because these were airplane pilots, both civilian and military, to the extent that audio records of conversations between the pilots and the ground control exist, and in some cases there were sightings reported by two different pilots from two different airplanes basically confirming the same UFO.

What's more, a website was referenced, with interviews from the webmaster called [url=http://www.waterufo.net]Water UFO.Net[/url]. These website serves as a research database and records over 1000 entries dating back from 1067 AD all the way through last year. We are not talking about a couple of scant Loch Ness monster sightings throughout the centuries or a few Yeti here and there and several BigFoot hoaxes. There are over 1000 incidences here.

I'm not talking about conspiracies here, a conspiracy would be the governments of the world in kahootz with their alien overlords, nor am I talking about abductions. That is a story for another day, but just UFO or USO sightings. So I ask again, are you a believer?

The Blame Game: Who is "Responsible" for History?

Scipio Africanus — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 22:12:22 GMT

Recent discussions have got me a bit riled up about the pervasive habit that seems to have become the norm among otherwise intelligent, critical-minded folks: blaming this or that entity for the patterns we can observe in history.

I would ask you to read the following, and speculate on what it might have to do with Al Qaeda, Hamas, and myriad other problems and issues of the Earth in 2008

[quote]The war was ended by several treaties, most notably the Treaty of Versailles, signed on 28 June 1919, though the Allied powers had an armistice with Germany in place since 11 November 1918. One of the most striking results of the war was a large redrawing of the map of Europe. All of the Central Powers lost territory, and many new nations were created. The German Empire lost its colonial possessions and was saddled with accepting blame for the war, as well as paying punitive reparations for it. The Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman empires were completely dissolved. Austria-Hungary was carved up into several successor states including Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia. The Ottoman Empire disintegrated, and much of its non-Anatolian territory was awarded as protectorates of various Allied powers, while the remaining Turkish core was reorganized as the Republic of Turkey. The Russian Empire, which had withdrawn from the war in 1917 after the October Revolution, lost much of its western frontier as the newly independent nations of Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland were carved from it. After the war, the League of Nations was created as an international organization designed to avoid future wars by giving nations a means of solving their differences diplomatically. World War I ended the world order which had existed since the end of the Napoleonic Wars, and was an important factor in the outbreak of World War II.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I

Is it only, and pitiously, in hindsight that we can see the interconnections of events in history? Are we doomed to repeat every mistake of our ancestors countless times, a fate which, in a world of abundant thermonuclear devices may equate with the our true doom?

A person for each century!

Konrad von Richtmark — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 08:39:41 GMT

While reading through [url=http://www.time.com/time/time100/poc/magazine/the_necessary_evil19a.html]TIME's feeble excuse for not choosing Hitler to be the man of the century[/url], I got thinking, what about earlier centuries? From the 1st century to present date, who would you pick as the most influential person of the century. Here goes my tries, for the ones I can put my finger on:

[b]1st century:[/b] Jesus (obviously)
[b]2nd century:[/b] No idea, maybe Cai Lun, the inventor of paper?
[b]3rd century:[/b] Ardashir I, the founder of the Sassanid Empire which would dominate Central Asia for several centuries
[b]4th century:[/b] I would say Fritigern of the Visigoths, for contributing more than anyone else towards the fall of the Western Roman Empire. With Constantine I as a close second.
[b]5th century:[/b] Attila the Hun. Not only for contributing to the fall of the Western Empire, but for causing migrations on an international scale which forever changed the world.
[b]6th century:[/b] -. Justinian I maybe? He was a big player in his age, but as none of his achievements really lasted I doubt he should get the honour.
[b]7th century:[/b] Muhammed (obviously)
[b]8th century:[/b] Charlemagne, for permanently reshaping Europe and setting the stage for feudalism for many centuries, as well as Frankish and German imperialism.
[b]9th century:[/b] Al-Khwarism, perhaps, for founding formal, analytic algebra?
[b]10th century:[/b] -
[b]11th century:[/b] It would either be Alparslan or Pope Urban II.
[b]12th century:[/b] Saladin perhaps?
[b]13th century:[/b] Genghis Khan, no doubt, for violently reshaping (and ruining!) much of the world.
[b]14th century:[/b] Timur Lenk?
[b]15th century:[/b] I would say Gutenberg, though Mehmed II would be a strong candidate too.
[b]16th century:[/b]
[b]17th century:[/b] Newton, no doubt, for pretty much single-handedly making physics into an analytic, mathematical discipline with real, quantitative predictive power.
[b]18th century:[/b] Rousseau, I would say, for being the most prominent Enlightenment philosopher, and hence the father of much of subsequent Western Democratic political development.
[b]19th century:[/b] James Watt, I would say, for inventing the industrial steam engine and pretty much kick-starting the Industrial Revolution.
[b]20th century:[/b] Hitler. Like it or not, but he did change the world. His work and "achievement" was the climactic culmination of 150 years of European Nationalism and great power politics.

First they came for...

Roadkill — Mon, 08 Jan 2007 03:18:27 GMT

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Timbre_Allemagne_1992_Martin_Niemoller_obl.jpg/150px-Timbre_Allemagne_1992_Martin_Niemoller_obl.jpg[/img]--Martin Niemöller

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller]Martin Niemöller[/url] - Wikipedia

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...]First they came...[/url]

I found another Queen

queen val — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:29:33 GMT

D**** i can't change this, I hope you all can read this. I love having off because that is when Discovery Channel and The History Channel, I'm in school heheheheh I found A QUEEN and she was still reading about her. And she is still known till this day. D*** us women are all that .:w00t::D:cool:

history and heritage accommodation guide SITE MAP

Welcome to History UK!

Boudica - Britain's Warrior Queen

Britain has produced many fierce, noble warriors down the ages who have fought to keep Britain free, but there was one formidable lady in history whose name will never be forgotten - Queen Boudica or Boadicea as she is more commonly called.

At the time of the Roman conquest of southern Britain Queen Boudica ruled the Iceni tribe of East Anglia alongside her husband King Prasutagus.

Boudica was a striking looking woman. - "She was very tall, the glance of her eye most fierce; her voice harsh. A great mass of the reddest hair fell down to her hips. Her appearance was terrifying." - Definitely a lady to be noticed!

The trouble started when Prasutagus, hoping to curry favour with the Romans, made the Roman Emperor Nero co-heir with his daughters to his considerable kingdom and wealth. He hoped by this ploy, to keep his kingdom and household free from attack.

But no! Unfortunately the Roman Governor of Britain at that time was Suetonius Paulinus who had other ideas on the subject of lands and property. After Prasutagus's death his lands and household were plundered by the Roman officers and their slaves.

Not content with taking all the property and lands, Suetonius had Prasutagus' widow Boudica publicly flogged and her daughters were raped by Roman slaves!

Other Iceni chiefs suffered in a like manner and their families were treated like slaves.

Not surprisingly these outrages provoked the Iceni, Trinobantes and other tribes to rebel against the Romans.

The Britons at first had great successes. They captured the hated Roman settlement of Camulodunum (Colchester) and the Roman division there was routed, the Imperial agent fleeing to Gaul.

Boudica and her allies gave no quarter in their victories and when Londinium (London) and Verulamium (St. Albans) were stormed, the defenders fled and the towns were sacked and burned! The revolting Britons even desecrated the Roman cemeteries, mutilating statues and breaking tombstones. Some of these mutilated statues can be seen today in Colchester Museum.

Finally Suetonius, who had made a tactical withdrawal (fled) with his troops into relative safety of the Roman military zone, decided to challenge Boudica. He assembled an army of 10,000 regulars and auxiliaries, the backbone of which was made up from the 14th Legion.

The Roman historian Tacitus in his 'Annals of Rome' gives a very vivid account of the final battle, which was fought in the Midlands of England, possibly at place called Mancetter near Nuneaton, in AD61.

Boudica and her daughters drove round in her chariot to all her tribes before the battle, exhorting them to be brave. She cried that she was descended from mighty men but she was fighting as an ordinary person for her lost freedom, her bruised body and outraged daughters. Perhaps as taunt to the men in her ranks, it is said that she asked them to consider: 'Win the battle or perish: that is what I, a woman will do; you men can live on in slavery if that's what you want.'

The Britons attacked crowding in on the Roman defensive line. The order was given and a volley of several thousand heavy Roman javelins was thrown into the advancing Britons, followed quickly by a second volley. The lightly armed Britons must have suffered massive casualties within the first minutes of the battle. The Romans moved in for the kill, attacking in tight formation, stabbing with their short swords.

The Britons now had little chance, with so many of them involved in the battle it is likely that their massed ranks worked against them by restricting their movements so they were unable to use their long swords effectively. To ensure success the Roman cavalry was released which promptly encircled the enemy and began their slaughter from the rear. Seemingly mad with blood lust, Tacitus records that 80,000 Britons; men, women and children, were killed. The Roman losses amounted to 400 dead with a slightly larger number wounded.

Boudica was not killed in the battle but took poison rather than be taken alive by the Romans.

Boudica has secured a special place of her own in British folk history remembered for her courage; The Warrior Queen who fought the might of Rome. And in a way she did get her revenge, as in 1902 a bronze statue of her riding high in her chariot, designed by Thomas Thorneycroft, was placed on the Thames embankment next to the Houses of Parliament in the old Roman capital of Britain, Londinium - The ultimate in Girl Power!

2008 Darwin Award Winners

Scipio Africanus — Wed, 28 May 2008 07:02:41 GMT

Without further ado here are the 2008 Darwin awards.

Eighth Place
In Detroit , a 41-year-old man got stuck and drowned in two feet of water after squeezing head first through an 18-inch-wide sewer grate to retrieve his car keys.

Seventh Place
A 49-year-old San Francisco stockbroker, who 'totally zoned when he ran ,' accidentally, jogged off a 100-foot high cliff on his daily run.

Sixth Place
While at the beach, Daniel Jones, 21, dug an 8 foot hole for protection from the wind and had been sitting in a beach chair at the bottom when it collapsed, burying him beneath 5 feet of sand. People on t he beach used their hands and shovels trying to get him out but could not reach him. It took rescue workers using heavy equipment almost an hour to free him. Jones was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Fifth Place
Santiago Alvarado, 24, was killed as he fell through the ceiling of a bicycle shop he was burglarizing. Death was caused when the long flashlight he had placed in his mouth to keep his hands free rammed into the base of his skull as he hit the floor.

Fourth Place
Sylvester Briddell, Jr., 26, was killed as he won a bet with friends who said he would not put a revolver load ed with four bullets into his mouth and pull the trigger.

Third Place
After stepping around a marked police patrol car parked at the front door, a man walked into H& J Leather & Firearms intent on robbing the store. The shop was full of customers and a uniformed officer was standing at the counter. Upon seeing the offi cer, the would-be robber announced a hold-up, and fired a few wild shots from a target pistol. The officer and a clerk promptly returned f ire, and several customers also drew their guns and fired. The robber was pronounced dead at the scene by Paramedics. Crime scene investigators located 47 expended cartridge cases in the shop. The subsequent autopsy revealed 23 gunshot wounds. Ballistics identified rounds from 7 different weapons. No one else was hurt.

HONORABLE MENTION
Paul Stiller, 47, and his wife Bonnie were bored just driving around at 2 A.M. so they lit a quarter stick of dynamite to toss out the window to see what would happen. Apparently they failed to notice the window was closed.

RUNNER UP
Kerry Bingham had been drinking with several friends when one of them said they knew a person who had bungee-jumped from a local bridge in the middle of traffic. The conversation grew more heated and at least 10 men trooped along the walkway of the bridge at 4:30 AM. Upon arrival at the midpoint of the bridge they discovered that no one had brought a bunge e rope. Bingham, who had continued drinking, volunteered and pointed out that a coil of lineman's cable, lay near by. They secured one end around Bingham's leg and then tied the other to the bridge. His fall lasted 40 f eet before the cable tightened and tore his foot off at the ankle. He miraculously survived his fall into the icy water and was rescued by two nearby fishermen. Bingham's foot was never located.

AND THE WINNER IS...
Zookeeper Friedrich Riesfeldt ( Paderborn, Germany) fed his constipated elephant 22 doses of animal laxative and more than a bushel of berries, figs and prunes before the plugged-up pachyderm fin ally got relief.

Investigators say ill-fated Friedrich, 46, was attempting to give the ailing elephant an olive oil enema when the relieved beast unloaded. The sheer force of the elephant's une xpected defecation knocked Mr. Riesfeldt to the ground where he struck his head on a rock as the elephant continued to evacuate 200 pounds of dung on top of him. It seems to be just one of those freak accidents that proves.. '*** happens'.

THEY WALK AMONG US..... IT ALWAYS SEEMS IMPORTANT TO THANK THESE PEOPLE FOR REMOVING THEMSELVES

Battles that changed the world decisively

Konrad von Richtmark — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 08:19:00 GMT

If you would have to nominate the three battles with the greatest impact on the course of human history, which would they be? Not only great battles with far-reaching consequences, but battles where the opposite result would actually have altered human history into something widely different.

In chronological order, my picks would be the following:

[b]Gaugamela, 331 BC[/b]

The Macedonians under Alexander the Great defeated the Persians under Darius III. Imagine what would have happened if the Persians would have been victorious, and Alexander's army destroyed. No spread of Hellenistic power or culture across much of the world. Rather, Achaemenid Persia would have remained a superpower.

One can only speculate what consequences it would have had for human history. Would Rome and Persia have been the "great two" of the Mediterranean area? Would Persian high culture (rather than Hellenistic) have infiltrated the culturally backwards Rome and via them throughout Europe? Would we all worship Ahura Mazda?

[b]Zama, 202 BC[/b]

The Roman army under Publius Cornelius Scipio defeated the Carthaginians under Hannibal Barca, forcing Carthage to cede great areas of land and accept a vassalage and pay a draconian tribute, effectively ending the duel between Rome and Carthage. It took a 3rd Punic war to destroy Carthage completely, but Carthage never stood any real chance then. Roman victory removed their greatest obstacle on their path to glory, a path which would bring civilization to much of Europe.

At the time of Zama, the Romans were desperately depleted when it came to manpower, already having lost a fifth of their adult male population. Yet another victory by Hannibal would almost have forced a draw, ensuring Carthaginian survival on equal terms. Obviously Rome could well have prevailed in the long run, but it might have been too long a run for them to come to dominate the Mediterranean world in the way they did.

[b]The Arab Conquest, ca 636-660[/b]

The battles of Yarmuk, al-Qadissiya, Nihawand. Take your pick. In all of these, virtually the whole military strength of the nascent Islamic state was involved. Decisive Arab defeat in any of these would have meant no Islamic world power, no spread of Islam beyond the hostile barriers that Sassanid Persia and the Byzantine Empire were. These would have been the great powers of the Middle Ages. Orthodoxy and Zoroastrianism would have been the classical religious antagonists of history, rather than Catholicism and Islam. The world would never have known Arabic science, but perhaps Byzantine science funded by them having their richest provinces (Egypt, Syria) still in their hands.

20 years ago today

jerm — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 01:25:54 GMT

[url=http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/reagan-tear-down.htm]June 12, 1987[/url]

[quote]And now the Soviets themselves may, in a limited way, be coming to understand the importance of freedom. We hear much from Moscow about a new policy of reform and openness. Some political prisoners have been released. Certain foreign news broadcasts are no longer being jammed. Some economic enterprises have been permitted to operate with greater freedom from state control.

Are these the beginnings of profound changes in the Soviet state? Or are they token gestures, intended to raise false hopes in the West, or to strengthen the Soviet system without changing it? We welcome change and openness; for we believe that freedom and security go together, that the advance of human liberty can only strengthen the cause of world peace. There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall![/quote]

[url=http://easylink.playstream.com/historyplace/thp-reagan-berlin.ra]Listen[/url]

Iron: Not so Great After All!

Scipio Africanus — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:23:51 GMT

So I was having a little evening surf session, and eventually wound up bouncing between wiki pages about ancient civilizations. Finally wound up on this [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze#Properties]page about Bronze[/url].

Amazing . . . I guess it was the simple economics of iron ore being more abundant and the alloy (tin) needed to make bronze that made the iron age happen?

[quote]With the exception of steel, bronze is superior to iron in nearly every application. It is considerably less brittle than iron. Bronze only oxidizes superficially; once the surface oxidizes, the thin oxide layer protects the underlying metal from further corrosion. Copper-based alloys have lower melting points than steel or iron, and are more readily produced from their constituent metals[/quote]

and from just before the above quoted

[quote]

Bronze is stronger (harder)^[2] than wrought iron, but the Bronze Age gave way to the Iron Age. That may have been because the shipping of tin around the Mediterranean (or from Great Britain) became more limited during the major population migrations around 1200 – 1100 BC, which dramatically limited supplies and raised prices.^[3] Bronze was still used during the Iron Age, but for many purposes the weaker wrought iron was found to be sufficiently strong. As ironworking improved, iron became cheaper, and people figured out how to make steel, which is stronger than bronze, holding a sharper edge longer.^[4]

[/quote]

GREATEST LEADER OF ALL TIME

ReyMandez — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:52:53 GMT

I'm gonna hold a poll, with 5 leaders, and i'm gonna put it on mulitple forums. First here are the nomninations, make your chooses, i'll be back in a month to hold the poll with the 5 most nomninated leaders.

My choice is Alexander the Great. He's the worlds all time greatest general i think, in anceint times he made an empire that spans from greek, to egypt, and to india, all in one lifetime, and more than that had many AMAZING military victories along the way.

What is the greatest civilization?

Irredentista Romano — Sun, 06 Jan 2008 02:56:50 GMT

What is the greatest civilization in the history?

I forget Chinese,Americans,British... sorry

Spasibo, Podpolkovnik!

Leo — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:13:46 GMT

I think we've lauded him before, but thank you, Lt. Colonel Petrov!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

Middle of Nowhere

Scipio Africanus — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 11:01:52 GMT

Been playing War Plan Orange lately, which is a hypothetical scenario of a Pacific War between Japan and U.S. in 1920s. It has pretty much every island of any significance on a gigantic hex map. Got intrigued at some of these places, so I had a quick look and found this stuff about [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Atoll]Johnston Atoll[/url], which led me to this very interesting [url=http://www.johnstonmemories.com/index.html]Johnston Atoll "memories" site[/url].

In the 1920s the U.S. military took over the atoll from the Fish and Wildlife Service, and the atoll had been used as a base, test site, and weapons disposal site for the remainder of the 20th century. Now it has been turned back to the Wildlife people, and "restored" to its natural state. Amazing to contemplate. I especially liked these pics of the [url=http://www.johnstonmemories.com/birds.htm]Birds of Johnston Atoll[/url].

ADDIT: here is a [url=http://home.earthlink.net/~markinthepacific/id5.html]"final" picture of the island[/url], June 15, 2004.

Amazing. We moved in, made it bigger, used it thoroughly, built it up. Then tore it down and left. Maybe a good metaphor for the environmental movement in general?

August 6th

Tosk — Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:23:13 GMT

On this day in 1945, at 8:16 a.m. Japanese time, the world changed forever.

[img]http://www.atomicarchive.com/Photos/Nagasaki/images/NG30.jpg[/img]

Yes I know that it is tomorrow in Tokyo right now. ;)

Von Clausewitz's On War

psweetman1590 — Sat, 28 Apr 2007 22:15:29 GMT

Lately I was rather bored, and yearing to read about military history. My first stop led me to Wikipedia to look up all sorts of combat planes, and a few tanks... But I had seen them all before. Remembering that years ago, our good friend VC had posted section's of Clausewitz's [u]On War[/u] along with some interpretation into civ terms, I decided to check it out, and my search led me to this online English version. Enjoy all!

http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/VomKriege2/BK1ch01.html

Color-Coded U.S. War Plans

Scipio Africanus — Thu, 31 May 2007 18:22:51 GMT

I've dusted off my [url=http://www.digitalriver.com/dr/v2/ec_Main.Entry17C?SID=45905&SP=10023&CID=0&PID=782121&PN=1&V1=782121&CUR=840&DSP=&PGRP=0&ABCODE=&CACHE_ID=0]War Plan Orange[/url] game CD, been checking out the activity in the [url=http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=157]WPO Matrix Games Forums[/url] and a mention of War Plan Crimson in the game manual (which is actually a 165 pp dissertation!) led me to check out the wiki site for the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Color-coded_War_Plans]United States Color-coded war plans[/url]. Here is a quote from the WPO game manual

[quote]

19.3 THE RAINBOW PLANS – WAR PLAN ORANGE

At the end of the 19th Century, it was obvious that Japan would at some point have designs on the Pacific. In 1898, with American occupation of the Philippines, and again in 1899 with annexation of Hawaii, war with Japan now became a serious consideration. War Plan Orange generally assumed three distinct phases, which would map out the war.

Phase 1, as we shall call it, would involve opening Japanese aggression, in which the Philippines would be lost, as would Guam, Wake, and possibly Midway Islands.

Phase 2 would be the retaking of islands, methodically, to establish a solid line of communication and line of supply for the battleships.

Phase 3 would be the battle for the Philippines, where the United States would land and retake Luzon, Mindanao, and the surrounding islands. A large, Jutland-style naval battle would also presumably be fought, in an effort to destroy the Japanese Navy. With Japan’s navy destroyed and her lifeline to resources cut off, the war would soon end.

While it would be well into the 1930’s before it was resolved, the Army sought to have an Alaska-Hawaii-Panama defense line to prevent large casualties that would be incurred in retaking the Philippines. The Navy, however, was determined to take the fi ght to the enemy, launching an aggressive campaign to relieve the Philippines at the earliest possible moment.

While certainly possible, War Plan Orange failed to include aircraft in its predictions. Bases would need to be taken to be used as airfi elds and aircraft from the outlying bases would cause damage to the fl eet, attempting to sink or damage as many ships as possible. Japan possessed fewer dreadnoughts than the United States and aircraft could even the odds as the Americans sailed into hostile waters.

Despite having fl aws, and making large assumptions, the basic premise of War Plan Orange was used in World War II, to the great success of the Allied powers. A 1920’s naval war would be a mix of the carrier battles seen in World War II with the convoy and large dreadnought clashes of World War II. It would be a battle for land and for the convoy lanes, for the seas and for the air. It would be a large war unlike anything seen in history, blending in confl icts from both World Wars. And it would be won or lost by the battleship, by the fl edgling carrier, by the tiny pigboat, and the rugged torpedo boat destroyer.

The Rainbow Plans, as they were called, numbered in the dozens. War Plan Orange was by far the most wellknown.

War Plan Black covered a war with Germany; Plan Black was well known as a contingency in 1916 in case France surrendered and Germany attacked the Caribbean. In fact, the most controversial of these Plans were War Plan Red and its attached War Plan Crimson. War Plan Red involved a war with Great Britain, and War Plan Crimson a war with or invasion of Canada. In fact, in 1974 American and Canadian relations were somewhat strained when the hypothetical plan was fi nally declassifi ed. There was even a War Plan Red-Orange, covering an Anglo-Japanese alliance against the United States.[/quote]

Interesting stuff eh!?

Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin

Roadkill — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:54:21 GMT

-Boris Yeltsin passed away today due to heart failiure, at the age og 76.

BBC Article

CNN Article

"Triumph Forsaken"

Scipio Africanus — Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:44:16 GMT

Just spotted this and thought it might be of interest to many 1BC folks

[url=http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521869110]Triumph Forsaken by Mark Moyar[/url]

[quote]"A brilliant young scholar with a Cambridge doctorate who is currently teaching at the Marine Corps University in Quantico, Moyar is representative of a small but increasingly influential revisionist school that rejects the fundamental orthodox premise that America's involvement in Vietnam was wrongheaded and unjust.... No review can do full justice to this critically important book. Triumph Forsaken is meticulously documented and bold in its interpretation of the record. Even orthodox historians will be forced to acknowledge the magnitude of Moyar's scholarly achievement. It should, at the least, reopen the debate about America's Vietnam enterprise, reminding us that countries are not destined to win or lose wars. Victory or defeat depends on decisions actually made and strategies actually implemented."
[/quote]

Antikythera Mechanism

Bastable — Wed, 13 Dec 2006 05:50:43 GMT

Heard about this? Ancient Greek technology from the first century BC.

[quote]The Antikythera Mechanism is an intricate bronze device of wheels, dials and gears created more than two thousand years ago by the Ancient Greeks.

Found at the bottom of the sea by sponge divers on the wreck of a Roman cargo ship it has fascinated astronomers, mathematicians, engineers and historians ever since.

Crafted with precision engineering and covered with astronomical symbols and inscriptions – was it an early astronomical computer? The sophisticated technology used to make it isn’t seen until medieval clocks 1000 years later. [/quote]

Original Nature article:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7119/full/444534a.html

BBC radio documentary here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/unearthingmysteries.shtml

"It came with user's manual included."

5000 Years in 90 Seconds

Locus Coeruleus — Sun, 15 Oct 2006 20:02:07 GMT

I went to an "Interfaith Unity Feast" event last night at the Nashville Baha'i Center. There were prayers delivered in Hindi by a Hindu priest, from the Qu'ran in Arabic by a Baha'i convert who had previously spent nine years in Saddam Husseins' prisons (my Arabic teacher, no less), from the Old Testament by a Jewish Woman. A local Buddhist professor gave a commentary on mindfulness, especially with regards to his ability to cope with Parkinsons Disease, which he developed around the same time Muhammed Ali and John Paul II did. This man, [url=http://www.singingwolfrecords.com/jjkent.html]J.J. Kent[/url], of the Oglala Lakota Nation played traditional flute music and gave a prayer in his native tongue. The night was also graced by a speaker of the Zoroastrian faith and prayers read from the Christian and Baha'i faiths among others.

It was a great event, most inspiring, but I think one of the top highlights for me, with my interest in History was a video that was shown as part of the Keynote Speech delivered on the topic of "In Search of A Lasting Peace"

--------------------------

Who has controlled the Middle East over the course of history? Pretty much everyone. Egyptians, Turks, Jews, Romans, Arabs, Greeks, Persians, Europeans...the list goes on. Who will control the Middle East today? That is a much bigger question.

[url=http://www.mapsofwar.com/]Maps of War- The Imperial History of the Middle East[/url]

Enjoy!

September 11th, 2001...

cleopatra143 — Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:15:48 GMT

A moment of silence please.

Sir George Scott's Diary

Roadkill — Mon, 21 Aug 2006 06:52:55 GMT

-An excerpt:

"Stepped on something soft and wobbly, struck a match, found it was a dead chinaman." -- Sir George Scott's diary.

11th Septembers coming!!!

Rodent — Thu, 07 Sep 2006 02:13:32 GMT

All people hide Hide Hide! Because on these day the Islamic Maniacs come out to blow up people!!!! HIDE PEOPLE HIDE!!!!!!!!!

What is so great about the Romans?

cleopatra143 — Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:50:10 GMT

Ok I need some help here. I am having a hard time looking past their idealization and moral reprehensibility. Let us brainstorm reason why they are so great shall we? My history teacher will love you for it. :D

The Will to Live

Scipio Africanus — Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:36:40 GMT

A discussion about why battlships stopped being built over at CivFanatics, led me to these Wiki pages on the Yamato and Operation Tengo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ten-Go

This subsequently led me to glance at the Imperial Japanese Navy pages,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Imperial_Japanese_Navy

and that led me to the Hell Ships pages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Ship

Which then led me to these accounts of the Junyo Maru incident, and in particular, the quoted summary of the experience by one survivor.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanderkp/junyopg1.html

[quote]

In Commemoration of August 15, 1945

THE WILL TO LIVE

Willem Wanrooy

from: Veterans Outlook, Official Publication of Brotherhood Rally of All Veterans Organization, March/April 1988

I was a 19-year-old P.O.W. when I saw more than 5,000 men perish before my eyes.

In the fall of 1944, when General MacArthur's forces were threatening to retake the Philippines, the Japanese started to increase the transportation of prisoners of war from the Indonesian island of Java to the island of Sumatra. A railroad was being built to transport coal from the west coast of this island to the east coast and then on to Singapore.

My "hell ship" journey began at Jakarta (Java) on September 15, 1944. The day we all had been dreading for months, the day 2,400 of us would be riding on a prison-ship, filled us with apprehension.

Two long lines of men slowly moved up two gangways to an old rusty freighter, the "Junyo Maru". One line going into the fore-part of the ship consisted of about 4,000 haggard-looking Javanese natives. We moved into the stern, 2,200 down in the hold and around 200 of us, including myself, milled on deck, for there was only room for a hundred to really lie down and stretch.

On September 18, we were steaming maybe ten to fifteen miles offshore along the west coast of Sumatra. For more than three days I had suffered from the blazing sun during the day and from bone-chilling rains at night. It was horrid below deck. Without enough drinking water, food or medicine, many broken-down prisoners gradually lost the will to live. A third of them suffered from malaria en dysentery. Many went mad, and some ranted deliriously in the stifling, fetid hold, that smelled of urine, excrement and putrefying flesh. As men died, the living stood on the dead.

As I looked down the hatch, I saw a black stinking oven with more than two thousand souls, melting in their own sweat and body wastes, gasping for every breath.

I stood on deck, near that open hatch, when a sudden jolt shook the ship. As I looked up, I saw human bodies, wood pieces, metal and other debris blown high in the sky somewhere from mid-ships.

"Be calm! Brake down engines," a Japanese voice screeched through a loudspeaker.

Then, a second jolt and a thundering blast deep beneath my feet.

A few moments of silence.

Chaos. Howls and screams.

"Torpedoes!!!"

"Abandon ship!!!"

Panic set in.

Men jumped overboard. Others threw life rafts over the side. I helped some climbing out of the hold. A mob of panic-stricken men crawled, trudged and wormed onto the one single iron ladder. Scratched, beaten and bloodied, some reached the deck. The bowels of the ship were belching up.

I took off my boots and puttees and outer clothing and jumped into the ocean. I was an excellent swimmer and got as far away from the ship as I could in one effort, stopped, and looked back.

What a sight. Oh, my God, what an awful sight. The ship was slowly sinking deeper and deeper. Stern first. Fore-part high up in the air. Hundreds and hundreds of bodies crawled and clung on the decks. Others dropped off like ants from a sugarloaf. Howls, screams and cries filled the air.

The ship disappeared against a sunset sky burning with yellows and oranges. Foam and waterbells churned madly in a maelstrom of death and destruction.

I looked at Death and saw a friend. And I decided to fight him with all the strength left in me.

After two-and-a-half years of prison camps I was skeletal in appearance, and, as a P.O.W., I was despised by the Japanese. As a physical man, I was not worth saving. Would the two small, escorting Japanese corvettes save me and the others? Hunger, thirst and misery in a cold, dark, ocean night would make drowning seem a welcome relief.

Close by, a man started to laugh. And laugh. High-pitched giggles that ended in a gurgling sound as he pushed himself under water. To come up, moments later, as a floating corpse. Mumbling incoherently, a few others followed his example.

I kept on floating, hanging onto a deck hatch. And the night passed by. Slowly. Hour after hour.

The interminable night came to an end as daylight broke through over the eastern horizon, where land was, far, far away. Around us a big, vast, empty body of water.

"Ship!! Ship!!" someone shouted.

"What is it doing?"

"Nothing, damn it. It stays where it is!"

My head buzzed. Tongue and throat raspy dry from thirst. Body aching. The sun rose. It got hotter and hotter.

Fights over a caught fish occurred on a number of rafts. With agony and blood on their faces some men disappeared. Another went mad, bit his companion in the neck and drank his blood. Men without God. Also men sustained by God.

I had reached the edge of madness when I heard a voice deep, deep inside me, "Choose your fate and seek your way, by your own light. God watches all the while, and guides your steps unawares." It was as if a last surge of energy shot through my exhausted body.

"Swim, swim to the ship," my mind commanded. "Pull your hatch with you, for safety when you get tired. Swim and swim, until I cannot command your body any longer."

I swam for five long hours. Stopping and going. Slowly, pathetically slowly, the little ship became larger and larger. Two half-dead men, hanging on my hatch and whom I had pulled along, became more and more a drag. I kicked and kicked my feet. My shoulders and legs ached. Water, sweat and tears streamed down my face. And I swam and swam. When I was twenty yards away from the ship, I saw water churning at the screw.

"Hurry," a voice screamed.

I howled a yell of desperation, kicked myself off against the hatch and swam like a maniac, arms and legs grinding through the water. A race against death. Death: the water. I kicked and kicked. Leaving the two men behind.

As the ship gained speed, I grabbed a dangling rope. They pulled me on board. I was the last one picked up that day. There were no other ships to be seen.

Someone poured cool water down my throat and whispered, "Act alive or the Japs will throw you overboard. They dislike dead bodies." I had survived a watery hell.

The two men on the hatch did too; they were saved the next day.

But I had only won the initial fight against my friend, Death.

Two weeks later, I began working on a railroad through the inhospitable Sumatran jungle. For eleven long months; twelve hours a day; oftentimes seven days a week. Digging earth, pushing trucks, carrying rails, hammering nails. Naked, except for a loincloth. Barefoot. The heat was one hundred and twenty degrees. Gnats and insects stung my body. Sharp stones cut and bruised my feet. A machine performing alotted tasks -- steady, disinterested, automatic. A suffocating, sagging, limp being. Beaten and kicked by the guards if I didn't work hard enough. Always present, the smell of decay, of rotting vegetation and sweat and mud and dead bed bugs. And always, the hunger -- perpetual, agonizing hunger..

My physical being suffered on and off from malaria, dysentery, beri-beri, pellagra, scurvy, tropical sores, sometimes several diseases at the time, and not necessarily in that order.

For eleven months, my environment consisted of lice, dying bedmates, dirty and untended men -- a humanity gone sour. I also survived this jungle hell. I had won the second fight against Death.

After the war, I learned the total tally of the sinking of the "Junyo Maru": 2,220 P.O.W.s on board, 680 taken ashore; 4,300 natives on board, 200 taken ashore. Of the 6,520 men, only 880 survived.

Only 96 of the P.O.W.s came out of the jungle alive; of the 200 native laborers, none. Today, only around a dozen of us are still alive.

To many who have not shared this endurance, but who have suffered a traumatic experience such as a violent death, rape, accident, et cetera, the experience may last a lifetime. But imagine being in an accident daily, or raped daily. This was my P.O.W. experience.

There are, actually, no words in the English language to describe being incarcerated as a P.O.W., but you can be assured that everything you've read is true.

"Could I have done it? Could I have survived?" you may ask.

Yes, you could! As I have! As others have!

There wasn't a great deal of difference in physical stamina between myself and those who died. But in many cases, the difference was in the "intangibles" -- all the unmeasurables, the things not visible around P.O.W.s, that contributed to my staying alive [to conquering the negative odds] -- such as faith and spirit and persistence. The supreme intangible among all the human factors was the "individual fighting morale."

Trust in God? Everybody prayed. Many died who I felt had a stronger faith than mine. David had faith, but also courage as he slew Goliath.

I believed strongly that God had given me courage to use, and a mental capacity to withstand physical endurance.

Oftentimes, I had feelings of hopelessness. But then I realized that the hope God had given me was not just wishful thinking or blind optimism, but a real belief that the situation could only get better and eventually would pass into history -- and that He had given me the power to improve a bad situation by using the faculties given to me. A good sense of humor, combined with savoring minor victories during periods of humiliation, often brought me back from my ordeals. The stealing of food and the manner in which I did it -- thus outwitting a guard -- created inner laughter and a sense of fulfillment. Simultaneously bowing and calling a guard an uncomplimentary name -- Hammer Head, or Busted Coco -- were small, critical exercises of mastery representing great personal triumph.

To increase my self-respect, I took better care of my personal hygiene and appearance. And when my strength allowed it, I used any imaginable ingenuity to collect, gather and trade for extra food and medicine.

All my constructive efforts to survive -- the will to live -- replaced the destructive thoughts of death. I realized that "the will to live" differs greatly from "the will not to die." The first is a positive, constructive continuation of an existing condition -- life. The second is an effort to change a negative into a positive, and is, therefore, not as strong as the first. A boy among men, I fought my battles alone. In solitude, my mind learned to lean upon itself. Exempted from the tormented men around me -- who showed what we were: men with varying degrees of a will not to die -- solitude showed me what I should be, a boy with a will to live.

Some say that God intended me to live for a specific purpose. Perhaps He did -- so I can tell my story.

It is this story: that I, and others, while experiencing the heights of pain and the depths of hell, won the battle to live, to survive.

It is also a story of anger. Yes, I rage and burn. I am angry because of the most brutal, barbaric, wicked, inhuman and cruel treatment I received from other humans -- my Japanese captors. I am angry because of the life-and-death decision I had to make as a boy involving two men who were not my enemies. I am a human being and not a forgiving angel. The only ones who can forgive are my dead comrades. The living have no right to forget.

I will carry this message with me: "As long as I can be horrified, I am not conquered. As long as memory moves me, my future holds hope. And I will go into that future and put my hand into the hand of God."[/quote]

Amazing isn't it. That a multi-million dollar battleship, one of the "most powerful ships ever built" as well as five of its escourts was sunk at the cost of 10 aircraft and 12 aircrew. Sort of explains by battleships stopped by made eh?

Fugitive

Scipio Africanus — Sat, 24 Jun 2006 08:44:31 GMT

I've always been intrigued by the claim that that Eric Rudolph character managed to live in the wilderness for five years. I found his motives, his criminal actions, and his philosophy to be absolutely repugnant, but the fact that he _putatively_ managed to survive in the backcountry of the Blue Ridge Mts. for five years is a fundamentally intriguging thing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph#Fugitive

Most likely, he never spent more than a few weeks at a time in the wilderness; there seems to be lots of suspicion that he had local supporters who took him in at least part of the time. I'm glad he was caught and convicted, and I wish all those who helped him could also be punished for their crimes . . . Anyway, the main thing that fascinates me is, the prospect that this guy, who is a fugitive of the local authority, managed to live in an underdeveloped area, evading searchers for five years; and it was really only LUCK that led to him being caught! As an outdoorsman, it has always seemed like an interesting challenge, and I've wondered how exactly one might pull off living on the fringe of a society as a fugitive for months or years on end.

The even MORE interesting question would be: how would you do it in YOUR area!? We've got folks here from EVERYWHERE. It would be interesting to hear the context-specifics for different locations, and what people think they would do. For example, I know it would be a VERY different matter for Bastable, Mongoose, Jerm, Comedy Dave, Tosk,

Down in the Blue Ridge, the advantage is definitely in favor of the fugitive. There are hundreds of thousands of acres of trackless wilderness. There is plenty of surface water, plenty of vegetation cover, and the terrain favors foot traffic MUCH more than vehicles or equestrians. When you combine the fact that, in the modern world, you have all these little settlements sprinkled all over the place, with various buildings that are literally right on the edge of all that vast wilderness, well, it's a veritable fugitive's paradis So, assuming that you do not have enemies among the local population, i.e., they will not assist the authorities to find you, but you also do not have friends, i.e., you are gonna have to live on your own, how would you do it? What would be the minimum set of STUFF you would want at the outset?

Because I've never read such a thing, I'd say the single most important thing right from the start would be "Edible Wild Plants of the _Insert Area_". Probably the second most important thing would be a knife of some sort. Obviously a rifle with a scope could come in very handy, but maintaining it in operating condition, and getting ammo could prove to be rather difficult. Not to mention the fact that, rifle shots are very loud, and have a tendency to attract attention. Consequently, it might be better to just have a flat bow, or rather the knowledge of how to MAKE them.

Obviously a backpack would be virtually indispensable, as would some containers for water. A sleeping bag might be nice, but, even in the coldest winter conditions, a skilled survivalist can supposedly find natural ways to stay warm and comfortable without holofil or down.

I think the thing that would eventually get ya would be disease. Very little of the water in the wilderness parts of the world is clean any longer (except for alpine snow melt, which quickly becomes contaminated as if flows downstream, and perhaps some very deep springs). Without the capacity to treat your water, giardia would quickly set in, and you'd probably accumulate a cornucopia of other chronic infestations that would gradually wear you down.

Anyone else ever puzzle over such esoterica?

For Once, A Canadian Praising US Government!?!

Scipio Africanus — Sat, 07 Jan 2006 17:26:34 GMT

http://www.mcgill.ca/newswire/?ItemID=18027

Intelligent design decision reflects Dr. Brian Alters' testimony

Source: University Relations Office (URO) [newswire]
January 04, 2006

McGill Science professor was expert witness in landmark Pennsylvania trial

Dr. Brian Alters, Tomlinson Chair in Science Education and Director of the McGill University Evolution Education Research Centre, has praised the recent United States Federal Court ruling that the teaching of intelligent design in high school science classes is unconstitutional.

Dr. Alters, the only Canadian among the six expert witnesses for the plaintiffs in the trial, called the ruling "a major defeat for the proponents of a religious concept that attempts to introduce supernatural causation into science, where it simply doesn't belong."

During more than three hours on the stand, Dr. Alters described the Dover, Pa., school board's teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to evolution as "about as bad as I could possibly think of"; an admonishment that made headlines around the world.

Dr. Alters, who also holds an appointment at Harvard University, lauded the decision as a clarifying precedent for how science is taught to students across the United States. "Good science educators know it's educationally irresponsible having public school administrators pretend to high school students that intelligent design is a legitimate scientific alternative to evolution; it is a religious theory," he said. "Now, in explicit legalese, the federal judge concluded that the intelligent design advocates violated the plaintiffs' civil rights as guaranteed to them by the Constitution of the United States."

Why is American Society/Culture so Backwards?

cleopatra143 — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:15:28 GMT

Why do Americans do everything different? Why do we have to be different, even if it means doing it wrong?

I ask because I was having this discussion with some classmates in my Child Development class about co-sleeping and breastfeeding. It seems that America is nearly the only country that disdains co-sleeping arrangements and breastfeeding (and thats slowly changing). It reminded me of other things that we like to do differently, such as driving on the other side of the road, measurments, football/soccer etc.
Anyone have any insights or opinions?

Best Whiskey?

Scipio Africanus — Sun, 21 May 2006 23:50:22 GMT

Distillation of fermented beverages has been with us for a long, long time

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_beverage

but which type of spirit is the best?

I've drunk a few different ones. Sure, sure, Chivas Regal is good stuff . . . Maybe I'm being a parochial Cumberlander, but I'm gonna have to say my favorite remains: Evan Williams straight Bourbon black label, first distillery in Kentucky :)

http://www.evanwilliams.com/history.shtml

The fun thing about bourbon is the oak-aging. Drink a tree basically.

World history?

Roadkill — Sat, 13 May 2006 17:26:53 GMT

-Found this interesting forum as I was browsing the MII:TW forums. Many things of interest for history buffs.

[url=http://www.allempires.com/forum/default.asp]All Empires History Forum[/url].

EDIT: The forums also discuss philosophy, literature, gaming, current events and more.

[url=http://www.allempires.com]All Empires home[/url].

When the World Changed

Roadkill — Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:01:50 GMT

-On August 6th 1945 "Little Boy" was dropped on Hiroshima. Afterwards this watch was found in the ruins, showing the exact time when the world changed.

[img]http://pic.templetons.com/brad/photo/japan/hiroshima/img_5755.jpg[/img]

Second Defenestration of Prague

Roadkill — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:47:27 GMT

"When the king-elect sent two Catholic councillors (Wilhelm Grav Slavata and Jaroslav Borzita Graf Von Martinicz) as his representatives to Hradčany castle in Prague in May 1618 to administer the government in his absence, the Bohemian Calvinists seized them, subjected them to a mock trial, and threw them out of a palace window 50 feet high. The Catholic version of the story claims that angels appeared and carried them to safety. The Protestant version says that they landed in manure which spared their deaths."

-Ah, the good old days:D.

Zimmerman Telegram

Scipio Africanus — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:48:06 GMT

This is an amazing story. I had probably heard it years ago in High School history classes, but had forgotten most of the details. Striking isn't it, how well Civ4's diplomacy can actually reflect this sort of real world espionage? Also amazing to consider how critical espionage has been in real world history and warfare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerman_telegram

The War on Christmas

Bastable — Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:20:03 GMT

Soldiers patrolling the streets of London, seizing any food being prepared for a Christmas celebration...

http://www.timetravel-britain.com/05/Dec/ban.shtml

Just a neat story about old Gurkhas getting their due

Dolf — Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:59:45 GMT

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4554870.stm[/url]

I always respected the Gurkhas.

[quote]

Gurkhas have fought for Britain for almost 200 years, and are an integral part of the British Army.

Record unrivalled

During World War I, 100,000 Gurkhas joined up, fighting in France, Belgium, Mesopotamia, Persia, Egypt, Gallipoli and Palestine. They served again during World War II and since then have fought in Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone and Iraq.

There are currently 3,400 Gurkhas in the British Army. Their record of bravery is unrivalled, and Gurkha battalions suffered 43,000 casualties and won 26 Victoria Crosses in two world wars.

[/quote]

God Save the Queen!

Scipio Africanus — Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:16:48 GMT

Amazing woman, and quite a babe too :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_I_of_England