InstantForum.NET v4.1.41BC Civ Forumshttp://www.1bcciv.com/forums@1bcciv.comThu, 08 Jan 2009 12:44:23 GMT20http://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxA lot of people seem to find great humor in jokes that are about the demise of Hillary Clinton, don't they? :rolleyes: Jokes about the demise of anyone really aren't that funny. As much as I really cannot stand GWB I would never wish to see an untimely death nor would I joke about such an event occuring. I will just pray that I am able to survive until 2008 to witness his fall from grace completed.Tue, 23 Aug 2005 17:36:22 GMTLocus Coeruleushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx/me waits to see how long these last.... hmmm ... not long.Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:38:22 GMTTerminal_Civ-erhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx[QUOTE] The officer replies, "About 4-1/2 gallons, but a lot of folks are still siphoning." [/QUOTE]If you put some parafin in that it sticks a lot better.Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:29:30 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx[QUOTE]...and realistic justice system [/QUOTE]Yes, and it doesn't hurt if you're extremely wealthy. :(Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:57:23 GMTLocus Coeruleushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx[QUOTE] i should admit that USA is the greatest country in the modern time. [/QUOTE]Actually, I'm not so sure I'd say that. True enough, the U.S. has great military might, lots of land, physical resources, economic capacity, lots of people, fairly-high education level, fairly cohesive and effective culture, pretty solid and realistic justice system and freedom of speech, at least some degree of social welfare and poverty melioration, and some degree of progressive-outlook with respect to the future of technology, society, and change. Our mass media is probably the largest distributed worldwide, and everyone is saturated with images of American happiness and contentment, which may be partly correct, though whether or not they are relatively happier than any other place is certainly a good question. However, being "large" in all these respects does not make one "the greatest." It might carry with it larger responsibility, and larger burdens, but not necessarily greater merit.I'm not sure which nation I'd say was "the greatest" on a per capita or other combined relative basis. I MIGHT have to say Holland, Denmark, or perhaps the UK, not sure. Australia and Canada are also, in many ways, just as awesome as the U.S., but lacking in numbers of people, and weapons. Japan and Germany have two of the strongest economies, and also (thanks to VE and VJ Days!) free societies. Course France, Spain, etc., also very nice, free, strong, peaceful, liberal nations. France's main problem seems to be divisiveness within its social body, and a kind of cultural neurosis about its having been eclipsed in the colonial era. Greece is a nice country, as is Turkey, and they seem to actually be getting along okay these days thank heaven. The list goes on and on. Maybe its just silly to try to label any country as greatest, or even great, when they all have relative strengths and weaknesses.Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:44:08 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxoh my god, scotty, let's stop the issue!i will not explain the news on MSNBC, i just tell you, the news and the picture distorted the fact! now i know a little of USA reporter from the news. thank you.Wed, 03 Aug 2005 05:31:48 GMTeochttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxback to the topic at hand. I hate to bust everyone's chops on this, but what, really, are the odds that a minority candidate makes it through the primaries. That's the important issue here. Nevermind that we're talking about a woman in this case, the primaries are the most important issue, and while America has made much progress in race relations, I just don't see it happening quite yet... It could even well be that because she is a minority, that will drive people out to the polls that would otherwise vote, to vote against her, sad to say. :(Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:54:56 GMTLocus Coeruleushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxWant to keep abreast of the "New China"; give this a look [URL=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8780005/]New China?[/URL]I have two observations; first, China has morphed into a fascist state (one party, gov't direction of important industry, capitalist focus, willingness to use violence to control the people.Second, the Chinese government better figure a way to let the people have a greater input to government.Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:50:30 GMTScottyhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx[quote]and i know your country is a country of the people, by the people and for the people.[/quote]You do not know how much many of us wish this were still true. Since sometime in the 40s the U.S. began to drift to "of the dollar, by the dollar, for the dollar" and the slide progresses yet today. Our last two Presidents bought the white house with foreign dollars, and maybe a couple before them. To todays American politic's the people are a distant second to foreign money and resources. But as long as they need only the hard core 20% that are to stupid to do anything other than vote the Party Line, and convince more than half the other 14% that vote, that they are the lesser of the two evils, I do not see any change in the near future.Even our Judges (that are supposed to enforce the constitution) are just party shills espousing their pet advocacy instead of enforcing the constitution.Hell there are more than a few people that read the words and go "Whoa dude I mean why didn't they write like ya know english?" Or whatever dialect they speak now days. ;) Jesusland ... crud LC I have not laughed that hard in quite a while ... great post! :D:D:DFri, 29 Jul 2005 03:21:41 GMTToskhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxyes, i should admit that USA is the greatest country in the modern time. and i know your country is a country of the people, by the people and for the people. as to whether China government is back to old time, i really have no any idear of that. i don't care about politics, i don't care about who will be the next chaireman, after all China must have a leader. in the past more than 5,000 years history of China, each dynasty have several good leaders. if the leaders of the dynasty were too terrible, then, a new dynasty would take the place of it. mordern China will be the same with our past history. and i can tell if the communist party is terrible, a new dynasty will come. in fact, from the leading of communist party, our lives are happy now. i have foreign friends, from including USA, Canada, France and Sweden. some of them live in BeiJing nearly 10 years(half of my age!). they feel free and comfortable. in my eyes, any government can not satisfy everybody, just satisfy the most number. any country have poors, corruptions and bureaucracies. USA is uu, China is uu, too*^_^*Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:00:21 GMTeochttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxTo eoc:The United States is NOT a "nation-state". With the exception of the native Americans and the African Americans (about 15% of us), the people of the US came here voluntarily. Even today, I doubt there are many people who don't have a recent immigrant in the extended family. Take me, my wife is a 3rd generation Dane, I have one set of cousins that are 3rd Generation Italian and another set that are 2nd Generation Filipino!!!What this means is that people came here and accepted, implicitly, a [I]contractual [/I]relationship with everyone else. Which explains why immigrants that hate each other in their home countries get along fine in the US. This makes the US incredibly strong and simplifies our assimilation problem considerably. But it has the problem that not everyone focuses on the same part of the "contract". The implicit contract we have consists of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the first ten amendments (the Bill of Rights) and the Gettysburg Address (IMHO) which is fine except about half of America focuses on the Bill of Rights and about half focus on the Declaration of Independence. So you get half that put "Separation of Church and State" in primary position and half that put, "...are endowed by their creator..." Now, migration within the US is tending to concentrate people of like minds together- cities are getting singles, childless families, the very rich; the suburbs are getting people with families, older retirees. The former tend to be Democrats and Liberal and look to the Bill of Rights; the latter tend to be Republicans and Conservative and look to the Declaration of Independence.About the assination issue- I think it is overblown. We have had four presidents assinated, two close calls out of 41 or so.Scipio and eoc: I think China is returning to its historic governance pattern. Old China was ruled by leaders with absolute authority but who functioned through a bureaucracy made up of individuals schooled in an arcane "received wisdom"- sounds like modern China to me. The Chinese may be happy with this, the benevolent despotism was Plato's idea of a good government.I would vote for Condi in a heartbeat!!Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:38:33 GMTScottyhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx[QUOTE] But in China, our chairman can walk so closely in us, shake hands with us, talk to us, even, drop in our house for dinner with no worry about assassination. [/QUOTE]Well that may be true enough, but what exactly would happen to ANYONE (and their family, if not their entire neighborhood, all their friends, their entire home village) should he or she actually attempt to assassinate the premier? I'm willing to bet that an assassin of a high level party official in China would not receive the same kind of fair and balanced trial in China that one would receive in the U.S.? Understandable how people held together in an "iron grip" wiggle less than do those who are instead bound together in a social contract based on trust, and reciprocity.If you check, you'll find LOTS of discussion of the US President's foibles, as well as all the flaws of the entire nation by plenty of American citizens. The same is true of the entire fabric of the society. No one is beyond accountability to the common social standards. Our system may appear less effocient on the surface, and it certainly allows for far more diversity in opinion, viewpoint, and open-discussion than many would feel comfortable with. But I'm willing to be that most folks in China long for a similar kind of system.Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:52:01 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxI've read "run for Chief Executive" by Mark Twain.I just wonder how USA president election looks like? And, I wonder why USA will be divided into red and blue? It sounds so sad!I won't run for USA president at all, because the president is always up against assassinating(many American movies showed that, and a few presidents were killed). I'v never seen USA president walk closely in the crowd(from TV of course). But in China, our chairman can walk so closely in us, shake hands with us, talk to us, even, drop in our house for dinner with no worry about assassination.Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:22:56 GMTeochttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx:D , lol, Jesusland, I love it. And I know not all Americans are prudes, just 51% of them ;) . :pJust to clarify as not to offend, America is the only civilized culture in which love is not recognized as the highest art and given the serious study it deserves. Certainly the appitite for sex is an instinct, but does another appitite make every glutton a gourmet, every fry cook a Cordon Bleu? In America (mainly the south) you hardly study it, let alone make any attept to teach it. How can your girls compete with a home grown Canadain boy ;). I applaud Bill for participating in the finer aspects of life, and applaud Hillary for realizing how good he is, or why would she stay with him?Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:38:50 GMTNesshttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxAnd over 35. Sorry, eoc- maybe China will start really electing a president some day.Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:52:48 GMTScottyhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxRofl LC, thems are too funny ;DMon, 25 Jul 2005 18:24:40 GMTSearedhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxNess...Hilary [i]is[/i] a prude. That's why ... oh nevermind. ;)Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:43:19 GMTTerminal_Civ-erhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxThat is a hilarious picture Locus!and, er hghgmmgh! Thanks for clearing me up on that naturalized issue :confused: Sad thing is, I had just read that a couple days earlier on the Yale website.I think Ddmagnan and I must be twins lost at birth or something, because we seem to agree on a lot of stuff.I second what he said about moderation 110%! I HOPE, nay, I PRAY that the Democratic party can get a grip on itself, and be moderate next time, because if not, they will lose, and they'll be giving away the game even more to the far right.Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:39:08 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxDon't be so quick to lump us all into one boat Ness. There's two Americas now! [IMG]http://home.ripway.com/2005-3/269322/jland.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://home.ripway.com/2005-3/269322/DividedStates.jpg[/IMG]I may live in the red now, but I'm true blue for life baby!!!Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:33:12 GMTLocus Coeruleushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx:rolleyes: , Prude Americans. America used to be cool, what happened to you America? Free Love Baby!Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:20:10 GMTNesshttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxI look at it this way ...If Hillary caused Bill to do what he did, when he did, where he did, how he did ... where would the People and the Country end up?! Nooooooooooo, thank you. ;)Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:41:35 GMTTerminal_Civ-erhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxYes the President is the only position that is required to be a natural-born citizen. The Vice President can be naturalized. So I guess that means that if the President was killed or impeached, a foreign born Vice President could become President.I've been speculating about a Condi v Hillary 2008 for some time now. I consider myself a moderate as I have things I like and hate about both parties. I vote for whoever I think is the lesser of two evils that election. I would have to vote for Condi. I cannot stand Hillary. She is so extreme left she makes Al Gore look like a Republican. Well, maybe not but you get the idea. :) I also don't buy into all of Hillary's current moves to make herself look more moderate. Looking at her track record you can see she is the kind of politician that wants to tell you how to live as she knows what is "best" for you. That combined with here extreme left views make for a horrible combination. I think the Democrats would be making a huge mistake if they let Hillary run. Despite her name recognition I don't think she will get enough support from the moderates. It is us moderates that decide elections as the extremes will always vote for their own side. Of course I'm not sure the Democrats have much of anyone else to offer currently. Of course we will have to wait to see Rice's true character. Is she as Right as she acts or is she more moderate and is just fitting into the current administration. What we truely need is a strong moderate party so we can loosen the strangle hold of the two nutcase extreme parties that force us to elect the lesser of two evils every election. Honestly, when was the last time anyof you voted for President and said "I really like him" and not "Well, he's not as bad as that other guy."?Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:59:16 GMTddmagnanhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxwell, I don't think Arnold was a Citizen at the time of adoption of the constitution, and he's not a natural, so 14 years or not, the way I interpret it...maybe if that "sentence" was written in plain english I'd understand it better! :PMon, 25 Jul 2005 01:53:59 GMTLocus Coeruleushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxArticle. II.Clause 5: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.Hope that clears that up. ;)Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:14:41 GMTToskhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxWell, Scip, that may be true, but I've heard the will have to be a constitutional amendment for some foreign born citizen to run. The age requierment, I know is there, but I believe that as it stands now, one must be a true blue American born in the USA in order to consider serving president. Of course those rumors I mentioned may be incorrect, but that's all I've heard regarding the Terminator!!!Mon, 25 Jul 2005 00:45:46 GMTLocus Coeruleushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxActually, I'm pretty sure the Pres can be naturalized as it is was written in the original constitution, but has to have lived in the nation for 10 years, and has to be at least age 35. No felony record is a requirement too.Mon, 25 Jul 2005 00:21:03 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxSorry eoc, you must be as 'The Boss' (Bruce Sprinsteen) says, "Born in the USA". Though Arnold Schwarzenegger is trying to change that law.Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:54:24 GMTNesshttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxhehe, are there any forbiddances to run for USA president? may I?Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:32:46 GMTeochttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxI am not from the United States, though if I had a vote I think I might even vote for Charles Manson over Hilary Clinton.Sat, 23 Jul 2005 23:06:05 GMTGarrisonFordhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxWell I guess it's about tmie isn't it?Sat, 23 Jul 2005 18:51:31 GMTPortugalhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx[QUOTE]OK - working my way through the double negative...a serious scandal involving Cheney is likely? Doubtful. Certainly not Plamegate, which is a total non-event, and which no one outside DC really seems to care. Halliburton is also a non-event, and he has completely isolated himself from the company anyway.OTOH, I can't see him hanging around for another administration, either as POTUS or VP. I just dont think he'll be interested, health considerations or not. [/QUOTE]That's all fine and good, but no one ever said he'd stick around for another administration. What I was referencing on that web page was speculating that he might step down in 2006 for a presidential hopeful canidate to serve out the CURRENT administration VP position. Short of a scandal or health problems I don't see that as being very likely. And in this day and age, Haliburton or not, you can never rule out a scandal in the White House. Very likely? no. But totally unlikely, or rather, would I be surprised if one happened? Perhaps not. Good to see you around these parts again, Ransom. The Cubbies are stagnant, but Derrek still is leading the pack in Triple Crown categories! :)Sat, 23 Jul 2005 18:18:36 GMTLocus Coeruleushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx[QUOTE]Unless his health deteriorates or he finds himself in the middle of a serious scandal (both are not totally unlikely), Cheney's not going to go away, IMO.[/QUOTE]OK - working my way through the double negative...a serious scandal involving Cheney is [i]likely[/i]? Doubtful. Certainly not Plamegate, which is a total non-event, and which no one outside DC really seems to care. Halliburton is also a non-event, and he has completely isolated himself from the company anyway.OTOH, I can't see him hanging around for another administration, either as POTUS or VP. I just dont think he'll be interested, health considerations or not.And yeah, this is hardly a new idea, and Rice would be vastly preferable over the carpetbagger. If she runs, expect the leftie race-baiters to come out in force though. It would get very nasty very quckly, I think.Sat, 23 Jul 2005 18:06:05 GMTPresident Ransomhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxI heard this while watching a news special on possible candidates for 2008. I think Condi is a great candidate and I would rather vote her then Hillary any day... I am especially thrilled at the idea after reading up about the incident that happened yesterday with her. Excuse the vagueness, just woke up, but I'm sure most everyone knows what happened yesterday. 2008 = me 18 and able to vote :DSat, 23 Jul 2005 16:06:24 GMTBismarck2990http://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxyes, I've heard about this months ago. Interesting times we could be headed for at the polls. I think it a bit silly that the website suggests that Cheney would step down as VP so that someone who has Presidential ambitions could fill in at the position. Unless his health deteriorates or he finds himself in the middle of a serious scandal (both are not totally unlikely), Cheney's not going to go away, IMO. If this country, America, has two women running for presidency for the two major parties, is America ready for that? It just might be...Sat, 23 Jul 2005 15:23:42 GMTLocus Coeruleushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxI would much rather vote for Condi than Hillary. And wouldn't it be great to have the first black woman president? Now that would be an impressive achievment for civil rights activists.Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:51:59 GMTcleopatra143http://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspx2008 Condi vs. HillaryNever before has a woman run for the office, and now it might be inevitable that two woman run against each other. Condi may have high academic achievements, but she has done little to impress me on the political scene. Lots of people are book smart, but how they choose to implement that theory defines them as a leader. My vote would be for Hillary!Sat, 23 Jul 2005 12:57:28 GMTNesshttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1033879-56-1.aspxOMG, I hadn't even thought of it, but I'd have to say that the idea, much like the woman herself is[URL=http://www.rice2008.com/]BRILLIANT![/URL]Definitely more intellectual credentials than most politicians, including Hilary[URL=http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/ricebio.html]Condi's Biography[/URL]Sat, 23 Jul 2005 12:38:08 GMTScipio Africanus