InstantForum.NET v4.1.41BC Civ Forumshttp://www.1bcciv.com/forums@1bcciv.comThu, 08 Jan 2009 07:44:14 GMT20http://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[QUOTE] Connoting a kind of Americo-centric fog in which all of human history prior to the American Revolution was nothing but a prelude to _real_ story of civlization. [/QUOTE]Suresure, pretend this is just what you dress up as... :rolleyes:Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:32:22 GMTZigeunerhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxCute and _cuddly_!?THAT is supposed to be my jar head southerner drill instructor accent!? ( . . . think Full Metal Jacket, or Apocalypse Now) . . . Connoting a kind of Americo-centric fog in which all of human history prior to the American Revolution was nothing but a prelude to _real_ story of civlization.But seriously, anyone know how long the longest period of continuous conflict during the 100 Years War was? It is a trivial but interesting question, no?I suppose technically Korea IS still at War, and guys do periodically get toasted in firefights and such, but one has to wonder if there really IS any significance to such hairsplitting, or if it has some true importance to the human condition?Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:05:53 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx-Could you talk like that forever? It's quite a cute and cuddly way of talking :D .Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:11:20 GMTRoadkillhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxOh sure! quote the Hunert Yeurs Wur why dontcha! :p :o But! You guys maybe didn't READ the first couple sentences of that wikipedia entry maybe? :confused: [QUOTE] The Hundred Years' War is the name modern historians give to what was actually a series of related conflicts fought over a 116-year period between the Kingdom of England and France, beginning in 1337 and ending in 1453. Historians group these conflicts under the same label for convenience. [/QUOTE]The "Hunert Yurs Wur" is a series of related kawnflickts, that are grouped under the same label for kawnveniunce.The "Kureen Wur" is "WUHN WUR," which has never officially come to an end :D And I _still_ reckon ;) that it is "the longest war" ever, though not the longest period of continuous hostilities between two social entities which make claims of sovereignty, depending on how you wanna define "hostilities." Vietnam might be pretty high on that list, as well as the Punic Wars, and also some of them "Hunert Year Kawnflickts." ;) back in 'ol Yurrup.Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:36:44 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_year_war]The Hundred Years' War[/URL].Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:21:09 GMTRoadkillhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxIf Civ3 gets a little tedious one can always read the civilopedia entries for certain European countries and find a couple of wars that lasted longer than the Korean War... :)Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:58:49 GMTZigeunerhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[QUOTE] Even though the slingers may change from time to time the mud flying around stays the same, and after a while it can get pretty tedious... [/QUOTE]Indeed. Much like Civ 3 itself!BTW, for two GREAT movies on all this kinda Cold War stuff, check out (in the following order too):1. Tae Guk Gi (Brotherhood of War)2. Joint Security AreaBoth about the Korean War . . . the one that started in 1950, and never has ended officially, just an armistice. Longest war ever I reckon![URL=http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/09/20/korea.north.talks/index.html]Pyongyang Tries to Link Civilian Nuke Demand to Military Nuke Deterrent[/URL][URL=http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/09/13/nkorea.dougherty.notebook/index.html]North Korea: Prism to the Soviet Era[/URL]Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:37:36 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxSometimes the oldies gotta take a break from it all... Even though the slingers may change from time to time the mud flying around stays the same, and after a while it can get pretty tedious...Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:53:16 GMTZigeunerhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[QUOTE] The autumn is usually rainy but it's a nice kind of rain. The wind is cooling without being cold and after the rain stops the sun usually pokes it's head out from behind the clouds and that's really beautiful. Norway is a mix of extremes, the warm climate on the coast and the cold climate in the interior. Worth a trip. [/QUOTE]Man. Does sound nice. Why can't EVERYBODY be nice like the Norwegians, and just have a nice free-market economy AND take care of their citizens with a reasonable amount of socialism, stead 'o goin overboard with all this "Die capitalist Pig! DIE!!" Che Guevara-hero-worship-crap?International Living sounds good. Gotta get old enough to retire first though :p , and oh yeah, making some real money would be good too, so I have something to retire ON!BTW, speaking of retirement. What has become of Terminal Civer and Tosk?Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:37:31 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[QUOTE]Hmm, this seems a bit more rating the amount of free market elements in each system. Of course economies based on Free Markets are going to rate higher than regulated/communal will. Although neat, the rating don't mean much... One point on US's record pretty much permenantly will keep is rated around 10th - 15th and thats fiscal burdon. This seems to be a rating on how much involvement the gov't has in it's economy rather than social/political freedoms. [/QUOTE]The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank, and its ratings of economics are indeed based on a free market perspective. (They have some clout with the Bush Administration.)I believe that the fiscal burden rating is basically "how high are the taxes?" The poor rating for the USA would indicate that the Heritage Foundation thinks that the taxes are quite high. While one could argue about that, at least they apply a consistent yardstick to all countries.All of this is about economic freedom, not political. But there is a pretty good positive correlation between economic and political freedom.Now as far as places to live other than the good ol' USA, there is a magazine called [B]International Living[/B] which has all sorts of articles about various places.For example, language. Turns out Belize is an English speaking country. Also in Malta practically everyone speaks English as well; it is one of the official languages there. Both of these places have large English/American ex-pat communities as well.Here is a link to a site called:[URL=http://www.escapeartist.com/International_Living/International_Living.html]The Best of International Living[/URL]Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:29:29 GMTrayfreehttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[QUOTE] I was speaking more of Chavez. [/QUOTE]Oh. Well since his name hadn't been mentioned, I assumed... well we all know what happens when we assume. I am curious as to how "transparent" other countries are. This of course doesn't really have much to do with economics (not directly of course) it's more about how much of what the government is doing that you can see. Other countries may have seeming transparency but really it could just be a pretty painting on the other side of the glass hiding the truth. Sorry, I don't know how accurate that was but it sounded good.Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:32:34 GMTjermhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[QUOTE] Norway: no offense Roadkill, but doesn't the lack of sunlight for half the year kinda bug you at all? [/QUOTE] -Well we get it all back during the summer :D . Actually, during the darkest part of the year it's light 8-10 hours a day(Starting around eight am and ending about 4-6 pm) and for the summer months(from May to the first half of September) it's light the entire day. I actually feel that there's a bit too much light and I love the late autumn nights when the wind is brisk outside and I can relax infront of the fireplace. -Norway is nothing like the stereotypical cold and dark place that it's crancked up to be. It's warm during the summer and rarely goes below -10 degrees celcius during the harshest part of winter(It's usually +4 or something during the day in the winter months). This is of course the coastal area and it gets a bit colder if you travel further into the country(Or further up) but it's still warm during the spring, summer and autumn in the interior as well. In order to get an impression of Norway you should visit in july, august, september and october. The autumn is usually rainy but it's a nice kind of rain. The wind is cooling without being cold and after the rain stops the sun usually pokes it's head out from behind the clouds and that's really beautiful. Norway is a mix of extremes, the warm climate on the coast and the cold climate in the interior. Worth a trip.Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:45:37 GMTRoadkillhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxADDIT: Thanks for that link to the Heritage site Rayfree!Don't you guys take your liberal indignation just a wee bit too seriously, hmmmm?In a Democracy, it is easy to criticize the system and the people, and the history that have bestowed the rights and freedom to criticize. Its far more difficult to actually DO something to try to make those systems, people, and futures actually better.The one thing US has on places like Hong Kong: geographic space, geographic diversity, and diversity of economic, personal, etc., opportunity.U.S. has some definite soap scum, but there are a lot of window cleaners working round the clock to keep it clean as it gets perpetually recoated. There are also plenty of polluters trying to obscure it round the clock.I can't think of any place I'd rather live frankly. Canada is nice, but far too cold (which for that matter goes for most northern US states too). England is neat but too cramped. Norway: no offense Roadkill, but doesn't the lack of sunlight for half the year kinda bug you at all? :p Germany, don't speak the language; France, now I could DO France! Ohhh, yeah, living in the Pyrennees THAT! would rock. Only problem being, how is a guy from Missouri who is not totally fluent in French possibly gonna get a job in southern France!?Japan: too ethnocentric and homogenous, as well as cramped (though I'd love to live there for a while).So many places that are either at constant risk of war, or repressed, or so impoverished I couldn't bring myself to endure it. If Zimbabwe, and Republic of South Africa could get their poverty issues under control, and get rid of Mugabe they'd be pretty good places to live. South America I don't know too much about, but the problem I'd have living in Mexico and Caribbean is the automatic outsider status I'd suffer by virtue of being a white guy, along with the poverty and crime.Switzerland, again too ethnocentric, homogenous, and authoritarian. Also too small and expensive. Italy, mmmmm, maybe could do that, but again language. My wife went to college there and she is not fond of the gender relations which Italian culture fosters. Spain, Again YEAH! the Pyrennees! The Low Countries or Denmark, sure I suppose so. Had a Danish girlfriend, and if she was any indication of the welcome I'd get there, then yeah I'd LOVE to live there!So that pretty well sums it up. Most of what is left is a war zone, crippled by corruption, poverty, incredible wealth disparity, an authoritarian theocracy, terribly polluted, and/or an out-and-out dictatorship.Wish it wasn't true, but the consensus of objective sources I've seen seem to concur on this unfortunate reality that most of the nations on Earth today are far more screwed up than "The West."Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:13:38 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx-I just want to show off a bit here.... Norway is the best country to live in(It's rated number one for the third time in a row) and it's the richest(Yes it is). However, the economic side is a bit stringent with the government controlling oil and so on. The government is easing up a bit now though and privatization of most social institutions(schools, hospitals and the likes) is starting to make those institutions much better than they already are. The thing we have to work on is mostly caring for the old. Much of that is still under government control and so the private players can't profit too much from it but I'm hoping that the government will let this part become privatised soon as well. -No matter, come to Norway LC. It's the best place in the world to live. Might I suggest Trondheim :D .Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:05:10 GMTRoadkillhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxHmm, this seems a bit more rating the amount of free market elements in each system. Of course economies based on Free Markets are going to rate higher than regulated/communal will. Although neat, the rating don't mean much... One point on US's record pretty much permenantly will keep is rated around 10th - 15th and thats fiscal burdon. This seems to be a rating on how much involvement the gov't has in it's economy rather than social/political freedoms.Heres America's one Scar:Fiscal BurdenScore:4.0 The United States’ top federal income tax rate is 35 percent. The top corporate tax rate is 35 percent. Government expenditures as a share of GDP increased less in 2003 (0.4 percentage point to 35.9 percent) than they did in 2002 (0.7 percentage point). On net, the United States’ fiscal burden of government score is unchanged this year.Addit:Hehe, most nations take a negative hit in the wages section for having a minimum wage ;)Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:34:23 GMTSearedhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxIt's hard to be objective considering different countries and their various implementations of "democracy".The Heritage Foundation has, for about the past 11 years, done a yearly evaluation of all the countries in the world (161!), rating them on their economic freedom. Countries are listed in order of their economic freedom, from the most to the least. They get a score based on 50 independant variables in categories such as:Trade policy, Fiscal burden of government, Government intervention in the economy, Monetary policy, Capital flows and foreign investment, Banking and finance, Wages and prices, Property rights, Regulation, and Informal market activity. The list is then broken into broad categories: Free, Mostly Free, Mostly Unfree, and Repressed. At the bottom are places like North Korea. Near the top are countries like the USA, though the USA is not at the very top. (Indeed, the USA is tied for 12th with Switzerland.) Hong Kong is at the top.The yearly report includes analyses of every country from year to year: which are becoming more free, which less, and why.Cuba is rated Repressed. So is Venezuala.Here is the link to their site:[URL=http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/countries.cfm]The Heritage Foundation Index of Economic Freedom[/URL]Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:22:30 GMTrayfreehttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[QUOTE]Seared, I'm not too sure what you mean here, I'm not too brushed up on the democracies of these other nations. Are you saying that these other systems outside of the US are considerably more or less transparent than the US, or about the same? An honest question, no sarcasm implied. [/QUOTE]Actually, I was posing the question myself. Question something like transparency or frredom of speech in the US and our right wings are quick to compare it with the freedoms of Russia, China, Cuba, or any other of nations with questionable records concerning freedom. I'm curious how the US would stand up when compared to other like systems rather than the places Scip keeps telling us to go.Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:40:02 GMTSearedhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[QUOTE]We have a transparent system. Unfortunately it has a bit of soap scum on it. That's better than opaque. I am starting to think you like Castro LC. [/QUOTE]Soap scum on it. Heh! I like that. :) That may be rather accurate. I suppose if there is a little bit of soap scum on it you can still usually see through it. But the fact that it is there and that it can be seen means there should be movements to eliminate it. Anyways, I like Castro??? To be honest I know very little about Castro, so I have no basis to like or dislike him. Garrison has mentioned Castro's Cuba 2 or 3 times in this thread and you say that I like Castro, why don't you go ask him about Castro? (No Offense, GF, not directed at you). When I mentioned a revolutionary, I was speaking more of Chavez. I've been reading quite abit on the man lately, and the history of oppression , racism, and poverty in South America dating back to its early colonial days. Sure, the minority status elite are going to disapprove of the revolution, but that's too damn bad, what with the way the other half lives, or rather the other 80 percent of the continent. Equality has been a myth down there for centuries. I'd like to hear some good arguments as to why he is so evil. [QUOTE]So I take it you'll be job hunting in Cuba or China, or Russia when you finish your graduate studies LC?You may find that your predilection to criticize the government is not so overlooked, and lightly treated if you do! [/QUOTE]Gimme a freaking break, mate. That's the most absurd thing I've ever read on this forum. period. First of all, I'm not going to relocate anywhere permanently any time soon. With all the close relatives I've got, my parents and siblings and grandparents and what not, that would be a very selfish thing to do. And furthermore, Cuba, China and Russia??? Why the hell would I want to go to those places?? There are FAR better options as SeaRed mentions. If I were to go anywhere, it would be north of the border, but other options like Scandinavia, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, etc. etc. etc. exist as well. Hell, even in the "evil, undemocratic regime" of Venezuela protesting exists and is encouraged. Hugo Chavez wrote it into the new constitution himself, a mechanism for a recall referendum for the presidential position. Such action was taken last year, after two unsuccessful coup attempts, and the referndum was soundly defeated, fraud was cried out, but international observers verified the legitimacy of the vote.Don't get me wrong. I love my country. I'm not too fond of it's leadership right now, and I'm certainly not going to make the blanket statement of transparency. The election process MAY be transparent, but at the same time, the Tennessee Waltz sting here could have easily happened in ANY other state, as well as at the level of the federal governement. We've got a great system here, but it is not transparent.[QUOTE]Democracies like UK, France, Germany, Canada, Italy, Spain (that are comparible Democracies)... Can go on listing... And see how transparent those systems are compared to the US. [/QUOTE]Seared, I'm not too sure what you mean here, I'm not too brushed up on the democracies of these other nations. Are you saying that these other systems outside of the US are considerably more or less transparent than the US, or about the same? An honest question, no sarcasm implied. ;)Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:59:23 GMTLocus Coeruleushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[QUOTE] You may find that your predilection to criticize the government is not so overlooked, and lightly treated if you do! [/QUOTE]Bleh, 'if you don't like it hear, go somewhere else'. If you prefer LC, try one of the other first world Democracies like UK, France, Germany, Canada, Italy, Spain (that are comparible Democracies)... Can go on listing... And see how transparent those systems are compared to the US. Really, I'm pretty sure we could make the US system look better by comparing it to freedom in Niger as well... Why didn't you suggest he go there instead scip?Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:35:11 GMTSearedhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxScary article Scipio. Makes me want to send an email out to everyone telling them not to patronize those businesses. I won't be using Yahoo for anything anymore.Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:54:48 GMTjermhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxSo I take it you'll be job hunting in Cuba or China, or Russia when you finish your graduate studies LC?You may find that your predilection to criticize the government is not so overlooked, and lightly treated if you do! ;) [URL=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/18/opinion/18sun3.html]Building the Great FireWALL[/URL]Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:14:37 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxWe have a transparent system. [IMG]emot/Confused/confused010.gif[/IMG] Unfortunately it has a bit of soap scum on it. That's better than opaque. I am starting to think you like Castro LC.Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:09:04 GMTjermhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxAnd really, anyone who believes that the American system is wholly transparent has got to be kidding themselves. Don't talk to me about relative transparency because really, that doesn't count for much.A plague of lobbyists swarming upon Washington DC. The buck stops here, mate. Or there. How much can your dollar get you? Prominent 3rd party candidates prohibited from participating in Presidential debate, and yet a revolutionary, touting best interests of the great poor [i]majority[/i] of his country that have been shunned for centuries, with oppression and subjection to state sanctioned racism is cast off as a villain because he isn't wearing the red white and blue goggles. Tell me with a straight face that we have a transparent system.Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:05:19 GMTLocus Coeruleushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxFor the sake of clarity, Cuba holds an election every five years where the 609 seat National Assembly elects the President and Vice.Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:26:01 GMTGarrisonFordhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx[QUOTE] Well one thing is certain......only Cuba is guilty of propaganda......eh Scip? [/QUOTE]No doubt that propaganda is a huge part of the (ongoing) Cold War for all parties involved. Everybody claims they are the Savior of humanity, the pinnacle of human achievement, and the other side are sneaky, evil, backstabbers (hmmm? this sounds an awful lot like the Democrat-Republican conflict!?! ). But at the end of the day, or decade, or century, as the case may be, it is interesting to compare incontrovertible historical facts about the various sides, as a way to winnow the cumulated props of ganda and judge which history of rhetoric was less inaccurate.Cuba, no elections for what, ~40 years? No free press. Until recently, no openness to private enterprise. Due process? Nada at best.US, elections every 4 years, free press since before 1776, world leader in free enterprise. Due Process, problematic at worst, world leader at best, but the key thing is, pervasive, permanent, transparent, and debatable.Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:12:33 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxMore on the topic. If anyone has any other links to articles that refer to the money required for Katrina and where it could come from, I'd love to see it.[QUOTE] WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former President Clinton believes the Democrats should pounce on and exploit President Bush's refusal to hike taxes to finance Hurricane Katrina relief efforts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan."They should continue to oppose it, and they should make it an issue in the 2006 election, and they should make it an issue in the 2008 election," said Clinton, interviewed on Sunday by George Stephanopoulos on ABC's "This Week.""I think it's very important that Americans understand... tax cuts are always popular, but about half of these tax cuts since 2001 have gone to people in my income group, the top 1 percent. I've gotten four tax cuts. They're responsible for this big structural deficit, and they're not going away, the deficits aren't."Clinton said America's deficit has forced the United States to borrow "money from other countries to finance Iraq, Afghanistan, Katrina, and our tax cuts.""We have never done this before. Never in the history of our republic have we ever financed a conflict, military conflict, by borrowing money from somewhere else."The former president, who is involved in a Katrina relief fund-raising effort with former President Bush, elaborated on the issue of tax cuts, saying leaders should hope "for the sake of our country that the cows don't come home before we have time to rectify" the problem."I mean, sooner or later, just think what would happen if the Chinese -- we're pressing the Chinese now, a country not nearly as rich as America per capita, to keep loaning us money with low interest to cover my tax cut, Iran -- I mean Iraq, Afghanistan, and Katrina. And at the same time to raise the value of their currency so their imports into our country will become more expensive, and our exports to them will become less expensive."He said the United States depends on Japan, China, Britain, Saudi Arabia and Korea "to basically loan us money every day of the year to cover my tax cut and these conflicts and Katrina.""I don't think it makes any sense. I think it's wrong."[/QUOTE]I'm trying to find articles that would be pro-tax cut and continuing to borrow money as needed and I'll post/quote em up here when and if I find them.[QUOTE] The Highway bill is being cut If they get rid of the bridge in alaska its something like 800 million right there, so there should be enough Money to help the city [/QUOTE]800 million is a good start atleast. though it's pretty insignificant on it's own. Thats about .4% of the total cost to clean up and rebuild that we're looking at.[QUOTE] Bush must have figured that the 1500+ doctors and the 42,000+ pounds of medicine and supplies that Cuba offered wasn't needed. [/QUOTE]Political posturing is all that was. Doctors and 'pounds' of medicine really aren't required. It's about the same as sending a whole bunch of tents for refugees... Really, it's aid that isn't required. If they lined up rescue workers and constrcution crews...[QUOTE] The recently passed highway and energy bills are filled with "pork". Many billions would be available there if the political establishment could agree to revise those bills and redirect everyone's pork project to the aid of New Orleans. [/QUOTE]Very good point and thnx for bringing that up... Hmmmm, another article for this point:[QUOTE] WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Since the president prefers not to raise taxes to finance Hurricane Katrina recovery, three senators suggested Sunday that Congress cut spending, delay a Medicare prescription benefit and forego a tax cut for the rich.Senate Democrat Joe Biden from Delaware suggested sacrificing a cut in estate taxes, and Republicans Lindsey Graham and Jon Kyl put political "pork" in the budgetary cross hairs.Last Thursday, President Bush announced an ambitious Gulf Coast rebuilding plan. However, he and White House advisers have refused to estimate its cost. Analysts expect it to be about $200 billion. Bush has said he prefers not to raise taxes and can glean the money from eliminating unnecessary spending. But House Majority Leader Tom DeLay contended that Republicans have already reined in expenses and he challenged legislators to show him the fat.Arizona's Kyl voted against the $2.4 trillion plan, but President Bush pushed it and the Republican Congress passed it. "If we would simply take about a fourth of that and all of the various pork projects that were in the highway bill, and redirect some of that to the Gulf region, we would have billions of dollars to help rebuild that area and ... not waste money that would otherwise be spent on a lot of things that don't have much to do with rebuilding highways and bridges," Kyl said on CNN's "Late Edition."Among those non-transportation expenses are: $2.6 million for walkway and bikeway improvements in Coney Island; $1.3 million for sidewalk lighting and landscaping at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles; and $1.3 million for a day-care center and park-and-ride facility in Champaign, Illinois.South Carolina's Graham, who was on "Fox News Sunday," also cited the corpulent transportation and energy bill and pointed to another expense.Graham said he supported possibly delaying the implementation of a Medicare prescription drug benefit -- a project many Democrats and some Republican fiscal conservatives, including Graham, opposed."There's so much opportunity here to go back into the budget and extract some savings to help pay for this hurricane relief that I look at it as an opportunity for the Congress to get back to its roots of being fiscally sound and conservative," Graham said on Fox. "Maybe something good can come from this hurricane." The United States faces a record deficit, and Bush's 2006 budget includes a budget deficit of more than $300 billion. Biden questioned how the Bush administration could finance nearly half a trillion dollars during the next several years for the war in Iraq and for Katrina recovery. "We have two national emergencies," Biden said. "One relates to our interest in Iraq and the other in the Gulf, and I don't think you can take from one to deal with the other." "... We're either going to share the cost with everyone, including the wealthiest among us by foregoing the tax cuts for the wealthiest, or we're going to put all the burden on the middle class.... We don't have to go forward with further tax cuts for the wealthy. There's a $70 billion tax cut in this particular budget. Permanently eliminating the estate-tax cut is a trillion dollars over the next 10 years. Maybe we have to forgo those for the time being." [/QUOTE][QUOTE] But I guess if capitalism, and Republicans are "evil," then anything is justified, eh? [/QUOTE]Trust scip to jump in with the partisan comments, that only came out on what, his first post? Thnx!Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:31:42 GMTSearedhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxWell one thing is certain......only Cuba is guilty of propaganda......eh Scip? [IMG]emot/Tongue/tongue007.gif[/IMG] [IMG]emot/Tongue/tongue007.gif[/IMG] [IMG]emot/Glasses/glasses062.gif[/IMG]Mon, 19 Sep 2005 04:39:47 GMTGarrisonFordhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxHehe, we better chalk up Cuba as one of the evil countries that Scipio does [i]not[/i] give his famous benefit of the doubt... [IMG]emot/Toothy/toothy045.gif[/IMG]Mon, 19 Sep 2005 00:07:10 GMTZigeunerhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspx-Great play by Cuba. No matter what Bush says Cuba comes off as the helping hand. If he accepts it he is admitting that the USA needs help from it's "enemy", Cuba. If he rejects it Cuba will be seen upon as the frienldy nation that the US doesn't want anything to do with and Bush seems a bit careless about the disaster. Lets chalk another one up there for Cuba then.Sat, 17 Sep 2005 19:50:24 GMTRoadkillhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxWhat reason would Bush have to care about his "image" given that he cannot run for President again?. . . Oh yeah, I forgot, he IS the President, and solidarity behind the leader WOULD strengthen the nation.That's an interesting amount of stuff Cuba putatively offered to send Garrison.One of my classmates did her fieldwork down there. Surviving the dengue epidemic "that never happened" (on the books anyway) kinda changed her rosy view of that "utopia." Well, that and the palpable sense of anxiety about any open discussion among the people, as well as the relentless "research facilitators," who kept close tabs on her and her work.It was quite poignant because she left the US equally a revolutionary as her radical left-wing advisor, but came back without much good to say about Cuba. What is even more putrid is, her advisor then sought to black ball her and keep her from finishing her dissertation. She eventually had toget a university review board to counter her advisors stonewalling. Talk about censorship!? But I guess if capitalism, and Republicans are "evil," then anything is justified, eh?Sat, 17 Sep 2005 19:26:53 GMTScipio Africanushttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxThe Highway bill is being cut If they get rid of the bridge in alaska its something like 800 million right there, so there should be enough Money to help the citySat, 17 Sep 2005 10:47:01 GMTImmortalhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxBush must have figured that the 1500+ doctors and the 42,000+ pounds of medicine and supplies that Cuba offered wasn't needed. [IMG]emot/Obscene/obscene014.gif[/IMG] [IMG]emot/Sad/sad020.gif[/IMG]Sat, 17 Sep 2005 05:53:24 GMTGarrisonFordhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxThe recently passed highway and energy bills are filled with "pork". Many billions would be available there if the political establishment could agree to revise those bills and redirect everyone's pork project to the aid of New Orleans.Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:59:44 GMTrayfreehttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxBleh, replying to myself.[QUOTE] (CNN) -- President Bush said Friday his plan for federal projects to rebuild the Gulf Coast following Hurricane Katrina will be expensive, "but I'm confident we can handle it and our other priorities."The nation will "have to cut unnecessary spending," he said.He added, "We should not raise taxes." The president commented on the budget during a joint press conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin.Congress has already approved $62 billion in aid for the hurricane-damaged region. Analysts estimate reconstruction costs will be at least $200 billion. But two top White House officials, during a briefing with reporters Friday, refused to estimate the total cost of Bush's proposals. Before Katrina hit, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimated the 2006 budget deficit at $314 billion, down from $331 billion for the current fiscal year. Those annual deficits add to the historic federal deficit. [/QUOTE]Hmmm, I don't want to get back into the Bush bashin trend... But what does he think is left for gov't spending that could have 200 billion to cut back from? I don't think (especially given his corporate career) Bush has a full grasp on financial concepts here... That or he's firmly under the beleif money grows on trees. Will the deficit just exapnd to include the 200 billion then?Opinions on this one? Please avoid the partisan bit if we can... I just really don't see what Bush thinks he can cut back on now. Any idea how (or where) this 200 billion can come from?Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:45:28 GMTSearedhttp://www.1bcciv.com/Topic1034231-56-1.aspxAs always I get the Canadian response to Bush's addresses... I wanted to see how they compare to the internaional community (which for me is you guys). Any comments on what he said and why he said it? Read the questions/points at the bottom and chip in 2 cents to wherever ya want.I'll put some headline quotes from Canadian papers here:[QUOTE] Headline: [B]Bush tries to rescue reputation [/B]President George W. Bush, facing an image crisis, admitted Thursday he failed Americans in the response to hurricane Katrina, pitched an anti-poverty plan and promised to pay the bulk of one of the world's largest reconstruction projects....While Bush directed his Homeland Security Department to conduct an immediate review of emergency plans in every major city in America, he left many wondering why that hadn't already been done after 9-11. And the president is facing Republican legislators anxious about the daily $2-billion US price tag for the Katrina cleanup, a cost that could eventually surpass the $300 billion US that's already been spent in Afghanistan and Iraq. Big spending on the costliest natural disaster in U.S. history has raised serious questions about the finances of a country waging war and grappling with a huge deficit. ....Despite three trips to the ravaged coast and declaring Friday a national day of prayer and remembrance, his words have lacked the punch and impact of the moments that became iconic following the terrorist attacks Sept. 11, 2001. Opinion surveys peg Bush at his lowest-ever approval rating. And they routinely suggest most blacks think the botched response is directly related to the poverty and race of area residents, a view most whites don't share. ....Bush took particular care Thursday to address the racial divide that has split wide open again in the aftermath of Katrina, noting that the poverty exposed to the world "has roots in a history of racial discrimination which cut off generations from the opportunity of America." "We have a duty to confront this poverty with bold action," he said. ...Democrats are focused on the gains they might make in next year's congressional elections if the catastrophe nudges Americans toward a new level of social consciousness they advocate and away from a decades-long trend toward lower taxes, small government and a fend-for-yourself mentality. ...Recent surveys suggest most Americans now want Bush to focus on domestic priorities, rather than the terrorism fight that has long been his strong suit. Nearly two-thirds said he does not share their priorities for the United States. [/QUOTE]I realize in advance that this is coming from Canadian media, so it's pretty badly skewed to our direction (actually, is Canadian Conservative media here too... I'm kinda curious what the more liberal side goes at). I only quoted certain parts... Theres alot thats just quoting Bush and the sort that I omitted (I only took the points I wanted to bring up here).So...1. Are those poll rating true or am I being fed bull? How do people feel about Bush's ratings right now?2. He went after the poverty portion pretty hard (I would have expected him to try to draw attention away from that actually). Comments? And the big question... Is he just saying this or will action actually be taken?3. I like the fend-for-yourself comment at the bottom. To a Canadian reading that, it's almost an atrocity (what no help???). Hehe, I doubt thats the same opinion from peeps here though... Any comments on the move towards lower and lower gov't spending and lower taxes? Had more taxes been collecting, could more have been done to prevent this? Would you support a tax hike to increase disaster preparedness?4. Bush's motives... Was this address simply an attempt to boost ratings or was he informing the public of anything new? (Addit to clarify, I've put this point on here as many news sources are saying this is simply an attempt to save face and not much else)5. Any issues with the rate of spending for the recovery from Katrina? Is it time to look at and re-eval budget expenditures, or is it borrow the 300 billion and keep staying the path? 6. Similar idea as above... Is 300 billion a reasonable amount to spend on this recovery? Could it be done for less or will more be needed? Could it be spent differently?Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:04:12 GMTSeared