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RE: 3AM

Scipio Africanus — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 01:57:44 GMT

Most things humans can do, some other animal can do too: make tools; plan; deceive; love; hate; symbolize; be deluded; aspire; cogitate about temporally or spatially displaced things; string together symbols into creative arrangements; understand syntax; count and do simple arithemetic; exhibit cruelty; exhibit compassion and even self-sacrifice. We like to think we are the only animal who has the capacity to be reasonable, to do the best thing for the greater good, but I really don't think that it is true.

The only difference is we do _ALL_ of it, better than any of them can do any of it, and many of them can only do some of it. In short: as long as we stand behind our technology, we have been the baddest bad arse critter on this rock for about a million years I'd say. At least 500,000. Nothing else can compare to us in being bad ***. When 90% of the rest of life of Earth is extinct because of our degradations of the planet--be they industrial, military, etc.--we will still be here, making more babies, having our fun, and somehow managing to figure out how to keep going doing our thing, probably extracting nutrients from rocks using bacteria or something . . .

The irony is, while most other animals appear fairly childlike and limited in their ability to be reasonable, to do the best thing for the greatest possible good, we humans clearly (at least on a case-by-case basis) have the capacity to unerringly do the right thing, even when it involves tremendous self-sacrifice.

We've got no one to blame but ourselves.

RE: 3AM

Black Owl — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:43:52 GMT

Well....the gull did know he was doing something that might cause him bodily harm, which is why I assume he beat feet outt'a there. The outt'a is intentional RK.

All I can say about the lion is.......

KITTEH!!!

Really tho, you study nature long enough and you will see pretty bizzare behaviour. Bizzare in that it is Human like. Thus, I make the arguement that TOSK is correct. Mostly.

RE: 3AM

Roadkill — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:57:58 GMT

-I just have this to say...
[img]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i216/Lame_Bear/1189314057663.gif[/img]

EDIT: And this, because it's crazy...
[img]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i216/Lame_Bear/LionHugsTiemNow.gif[/img]

RE: 3AM

cleopatra143 — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:56:52 GMT

[quote][b]-M- (6/1/2008)[/b][hr]
By the way Miss Cleo... Communist Manifesto was written more than a century ago now... ideologies expressed there had currency then & they served to improve general well being of society... that is not to say that idealist communism is the right thing... rather it is wrong to devide humanity into camps. Such as to say: "We are capitalist, u are communist"... society evolves constantly & what is now is what is right.[/quote]There are flaws in any system but that doesn't make them any less relevant today. Democracy was born a long time ago but that doesn't mean that it's outdated.

RE: 3AM

Aintmyprob — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:11:17 GMT

[quote][b]cleopatra143 (6/1/2008)[/b] I was just discussing it with Nick actually, how I feel that technology gets shoved to the back burner because it's cheaper to use old technology versus using new technology to make things more efficient.[/quote]

ah... our legacy systems that hold us back...

Phone service... Gasoline... Cable TV... Overhead power grid... saw some interesting artwork about this last week... If I can find a link, I will post :D

RE: 3AM

-M- — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:42:12 GMT

It is the fortuitous congruence of such factors as sociability, flexible fingers, relative size & a few others that make us superiour to all else. But we are still animals, & ought not aspire to be anything more than that. Let us all copulate.

Since it is relevant I will pose a question: "Will an alien species, looking at us, consider the male or the female more colorful?"

In nature it is so that males of many species are more colorful. In chiken, Cock is always more so than the chick. In bovines, bulls are more so than the cow. In felines, the lion is more so than the lioness. U get the point. For a female reproduction represents huge investment in time & therefore they are more selective as to their partners. Whereas for a male it is a 5 minute affair. So the incentives are different on 2 sides. Fierce competition among males should result in males that are more colorful. So why do we say that females are beuatiful, or is it just males manipulating the environment to their own ends?

By the way Miss Cleo... Communist Manifesto was written more than a century ago now... ideologies expressed there had currency then & they served to improve general well being of society... that is not to say that idealist communism is the right thing... rather it is wrong to devide humanity into camps. Such as to say: "We are capitalist, u are communist"... society evolves constantly & what is now is what is right.

RE: 3AM

cleopatra143 — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:32:13 GMT

[quote][b]Nuclearcow (6/1/2008)[/b][hr]I agree, Miss Cleo. I thought about trying to respond with something about "soul/spirit" but I figured I'd pass. :D[/quote]lol yeah, It's not really fashionable anymore to answer with anything like that, since it explains everything and makes the discussion moot. =P

Not to hijack this thread but, I have been reading the communist manifesto also. I've never really liked capitalism much. I was just discussing it with Nick actually, how I feel that technology gets shoved to the back burner because it's cheaper to use old technology versus using new technology to make things more efficient.

RE: 3AM

Nuclearcow — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:26:15 GMT

I agree, Miss Cleo. I thought about trying to respond with something about "soul/spirit" but I figured I'd pass. :D

RE: 3AM

cleopatra143 — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:23:01 GMT

It seems logical to me but then again I'm coming from a religious stand point. =P

RE: 3AM

Nuclearcow — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:41:08 GMT

Its not 3am here, Tosk, and I haven't been drinking, but I'll play along. :D

Man has animalistic tendencies and desires, urges, ego, etc, just like all animals. We have both greater intelligence and a code of ethics/morals which make up the biggest difference between man and animal.

To further the examples you guys made above, an lion (or house kitty sometimes) will kill its young on occasion. On rare occasion, some human might do the same, though the ratio and percentages are incredible rare in comparison. Regardless, what separates man is that we might feel remorse for our animalistic acts or just not follow those impulses, where a lion just goes on acting on instinct, or in other words, follows its animalistic desires.

When humans get angry at each other, or see a hot woman walking down the street, or are starving and poor and see the weathy... each could act on animalistic instinct, but humans have that code of morals, or honor and I suppose maybe a mix of fear of the consequences... which halt people from acting on those almost always.

In spiritual evolution, if there is such a thing, man is more evolved.

RE: 3AM

Black Owl — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:02:15 GMT

By nature, Cowboys, Horsemen, and Mountain Men are philosophers.:D

ADDIT: Here TOSK. Toss a few of these back. You and I will be just fine with the world then. We'll be just as numb.

RE: 3AM

Bismarck2990 — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 06:36:56 GMT

[quote]Murder ... Man is the only animal that willfully slaughters, not only other species but himself as well.[/quote]

Only? Hippos do it all the time... like wise for bears, lions, wolves, and hyenas. You also have alligators/crocodiles that feed on their own young when the parental instinct fades from memory too soon for the young to have already vacated the area. I think it's more fair to say we're simply the only species that makes a big deal over it. Also, animals are in general survivalists above anything else.

[quote]Deceit ... Man is the only animal that willingly lies to not only himself but to others ... all the while with a smile on his face ... he is the only animal that smiles ... or needs to.[/quote]

Cuckoos are often nicknamed the "con artists" of the animal kingdom. They'll lay their own eggs in the nests of other birds in order to "dupe" the hosts of the nest into thinking it's actually their own egg. The Cuckoo is also often much larger then the host nest's off-spring and puts huge amount of strain on the confused victim. While they may not smile, it's certainly example of deceptive behavior.

[quote]Self deception ... Man is the only animal that willing allows himself to be duped ... if the lie is told often enough or he believes it is in his own self interest to do so ... the rest of them be damned.[/quote]

Yeah, I'll think about that the next time I let the cat chase after the flash light. ;)

3AM

Tosk — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:20:29 GMT

So here I sit ... my brain is attempting to correlate Freud, Jung and the communist manifesto with contrast to Darwinism, the federalist papers and the gospel of the flying spaghetti monster ...

Just what is it that makes [b]"MAN"[/b] the dominant species on the third rock from the sun???

Greatest strength? Greatest size? Most prolific? Most agile? surely none of these.

Was he truly given a whack with the magic wand of some cosmic farie?

Lets examine his traits that set him aside from all other animal life.

Murder ... Man is the only animal that willfully slaughters, not only other species but himself as well.

Deceit ... Man is the only animal that willingly lies to not only himself but to others ... all the while with a smile on his face ... he is the only animal that smiles ... or needs to.

Self deception ... Man is the only animal that willing allows himself to be duped ... if the lie is told often enough or he believes it is in his own self interest to do so ... the rest of them be damned.

Intelligence ... Ah contraire! ... may I simply submit that man is dominate because he is totally insane ... the same trait that allows him to work together building great works also allow the Spanish Inquisition, Vernichtungslager, and Jihad.

Yep ... looney tunes to the max ...