1BC Civ Forums / Civilization IV Discussion / 1BC CivIV BTS Multi Team Battle / The Supreme Court / Dgame Archive

Work in progress

TORARADICAL — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:36:31 GMT

We are discussing amongst ourselves so as to give you more than just rough ideas.

Senate campaigns

mongoose201 — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 08:10:42 GMT

With only 5 turns left in this Senate term, it might be wise for one of our judges to get the campaigns underway for the 3rd Senate term to avoid a prolonged delay. After the next set of turns, play cannot resume until a new Senate has been elected.

Humble thanks for hearing my plea, your honors..

Regarding the Princeps

Mr. G — Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:28:36 GMT

[quote]ARTICLE III: THE SENATE

4. The Senate shall elect from their number, by simple majority, a Princeps, who shall:

- Hold votes among the Senators on such issues as presented before them, which require a decision by majority.

- Confirm the outcome of votes among the Senators and present the outcome to the People and to those parties whom it may concern.

- Take upon himself all duties of the Presidency, should the President and Vice President become absent, with the special responsibility of requesting that the Supreme Court hold new Presidential elections as soon as possible.

- Organize and oversee the elections of the Supreme Court, and execute the outcome thereof.

- Organize and oversee such plebiscites as necessary to approve alterations to the Articles of Constitution.[/quote]

This position has always attracted my attention. IMO, it is a well thought out and well written into the Constitution (not surprising considering von Clausewitz was involved). Generally, it seems that this position occupies the Head of the Senate, directing its movements and leading its discussions; very necessary and beneficial indeed. In examining the Constitution, being the head of an already powerful Senate, the Princeps is also a powerful positions, at least requiring mention of it on the Dgame badges (IMHO).

However, the position is also - in some ways - redundant. This leads me to this next section of the Constitution:

[quote]ARTICLE II: THE PRESIDENCY

6. The President must appoint for himself a Vice President, who shall take upon himself all duties of the Presidency, should the President become absent.

6a. The Vice President shall be considered a member of the Presidency, should the Presidency be disbanded.[/quote]

Obviously, this describes the Vice President position available to the Citzenry at large. The Constitution devotes only one section and one subsection to the position, leaving it very little duties, responsibilites, or attraction.

MY PROPOSAL

Combine the Princeps and Vice Presidency into one popularly-elected position and elminate the unattractive and unproductive Vice President spot.

This proposal hopefully is an obvious attempt to help streamline the government and reduce red tape. It is not an attempt to fire someone from their job. That's the Senate's duty ;) (see section on disbanding the presidency...article 3, section 5).

Time limits

TORARADICAL — Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:44:40 GMT

We propose that time limits be installed of a minimum of 24 hours with a maximum of 48 hours between plays.
Addit: with the time growing longer as the game progresses.

Or alternately: give a certain amoont of time per unit and city, with more in time of war.

But 48 is the Noit standard

The Constitution

von Clausewitz — Sat, 10 Mar 2007 22:37:00 GMT

ARTICLE I: THE PEOPLE

1. The People of the Community shall be all registered members of the 1BigCommunity.com Civilization forums who, by personal choice, wish to belong to it, unless specifically forbidden to do so by an office with powers to that end.

1a. No person shall be allowed to become a member of the People with more than one 1BigCommunity.com Civilization forums account.

2. Any member of the People shall be allowed to make himself a candidate for any elected position in the Presidency, the Senate, or the Supreme Court.

2a. Before elections for positions in the Presidency, the Senate, or the Supreme Court are held, the People shall be given ample time and opportunity to present their candidacy and campaign.

2b. No member of the People shall be allowed to hold more than one elected position at any one time, nor be Deputy or Vice President to more than one elected official at any one time, nor be Deputy or Vice President when already an elected official.

3. The People shall have the liberty to organize themselves in such voluntary bodies as they wish, and to speak freely on any topic they desire

4. Whenever a majority of the People is required, this shall be established based on votes cast, rather than the full census.

4a. Any vote taken of the People shall have an "abstain" option; should a majority be achieved for "abstain", the vote shall be declared void.

4b. The People must be given ample time and opportunity to cast their votes when required.

5. No member of the People shall be allowed to interfere with the linear progress of the game.

6. The People may elect among themselves a person to organize and oversee a plebiscite to disband the Articles of Constitution and any body of legislature derived from it, and to execute its outcome.

6a. The People may, by a two-thirds majority vote, disband the Articles of Constitution and any body of legislature derived from it.

ARTICLE II: THE PRESIDENCY

1. The President shall be the highest power within the Community: He shall play the game at his own discretion, within the limitations set forth within these Articles of Constitution.

2. The President shall be elected by the People.

3. The President shall hold office for no more than 50 turns.

4. The President must deliver a full and comprehensive report before the People and the Senate after every period of ten turns, or when he reaches a point where a decision of the People, the Senate, or the Supreme Court is required to continue play, whichever may come first.

4a. In addition, the President must request the Senate's authorization to continue play. In this request, he will include a brief summary of his plans regarding foreign affairs, city production, and unit orders for those 10 turns.

5. The President must present a request to the Senate, and have it approved by simple majority of the Senate, if he wishes to:

- Found a new settlement.

- Disband an existing settlement.

- Adjust Civics.

- Engage in treaties with a foreign power.

- Engage in acts of war with a foreign power.

- Construct a Wonder.

- Use up a Great Person.

- Continue play every 10 turns

5a. The President may veto the Senate once per term, on any one of the actions described in II_5, unless the Senate vote was unanimous.

5b. A Presidential veto must be made public before the President executes the action, allowing the Senate ample time to disband the office of the Presidency (per III_5).

6. The President must appoint for himself a Vice President, who shall take upon himself all duties of the Presidency, should the President become absent.

6a. The Vice President shall be considered a member of the Presidency, should the Presidency be disbanded.

ARTICLE III: THE SENATE

1. The Senate shall bear responsibility for those decisions deemed the most grave by these Articles of Constitution, as laid out in Section 5 of Article II.

2. The Senate shall consist of three Senators, to be elected by the People

3. The Senate shall serve for no more than 50 turns.

4. The Senate shall elect from their number, by simple majority, a Princeps, who shall:

- Hold votes among the Senators on such issues as presented before them, which require a decision by majority.

- Confirm the outcome of votes among the Senators and present the outcome to the People and to those parties whom it may concern.

- Take upon himself all duties of the Presidency, should the President and Vice President become absent, with the special responsibility of requesting that the Supreme Court hold new Presidential elections as soon as possible.

- Organize and oversee the elections of the Supreme Court, and execute the outcome thereof.

- Organize and oversee such plebiscites as necessary to approve alterations to the Articles of Constitution.

5. The Senate may, by quorum vote:

- Disband the office of the Presidency.

- Disband the Senate.

- Dismiss a Supreme Justiuce.

- Alter the Articles of Law.

6. Each Senator shall appoint for himself a Deputy Senator, who shall take upon himself all duties of the Senator, should the Senator become absent.

6a. If a Senator becomes absent for an undeterminable time, his Deputy may issue a request to become full Senator, for approval by the Supreme Court.

6b. The Deputy Senators shall be considered part of the Senate, should the Senate be disbanded.

7. Should half or more of the Senate become absent, the Senate shall be disbanded.

ARTICLE IV: THE SUPREME COURT

1. The Supreme Court shall bear responsibility for the proper adherence to the Articles of Constitution and the Articles of Law by the Presidency, the Senate, and the People.

2. The Supreme Court shall consist of two Supreme Justices, to be elected by the People.

3. Each Supreme Justice shall serve on personal title, for life, or until he resigns, or until he becomes absent, or until he is dismissed by the Senate, whichever may come first.

4. The Supreme Court shall organize and oversee the elections of the Presidency, the Senate, and the Princeps, and execute the outcomes thereof.

4a. In case of irregular elections due to dismissal or disbandment, the Supreme Court shall determine the length of the term of the office in question, in order that the sequence of elections as intended by these Articles of Constitution shall be restored as soon as possible.

5. The Supreme Court shall make such alterations to the Articles of Constitution as approved by the People.

6. The Supreme Court may, by vote of simple majority:

- Nullify a decision of the Senate.

- Nullify an Article of Law.

- Inflict upon individual member of the People such punishments as are necessary and proper for proven infractions against the Articles of Constitution or the Articles of Law, up to and including withdrawal of privileges granted by these Articles of Constitution.

- Present to the People proposals for alteration of the Articles of Constitution.

ARTICLE V: LEGISLATURE

1. These Articles of Constitution shall be the supreme law of the Community; no other body of legislature shall supercede it.

2. To alter the Articles of Constitution, a majority vote of no less than two-thirds of the People shall be required to be in favor.

3. To ensure the proper execution of the Articles of Constitution, Articles of Law shall be established, to be adhered to by such parties as they concern.

ARTICLE VI: START OF GAME

1. To begin the game, a staff member of 1bcciv.com shall:

- Determine the parameters of the game, and create a game accordingly.

- Create such forum boards as necessary.

- Organize and oversee the first election of the Supreme Court.

- Make the game available to the Presidency when both it and the Senate have been elected and installed.

2. The first Senate shall have a term of 25 75 turns.

Supreme Court Decisions

Comedy Dave — Sun, 13 May 2007 07:33:40 GMT

Hey MM and VC,

I am curious, we have 3 SC decisions now. I am assuming they have no real weight of law until they are actually drafted and voted upon by the Senate as articles of law?

If this is the case, and if I am elected Princep, I will move post-haste to put these up for vote and get them ratified. I am assuming this was what was causing criticism of the 1st term senate?

Just want to clear this up for the benefit of the people. :)

Turn 40

von Clausewitz — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:03:38 GMT

Unless there are unusual circumstances the term for President will end following the next report.

Questions for MM:

The Senate has been quite regrading SC #1. Should we continue to use this to organize the upcoming Presidential elections? I don't see a better alternative.

When should we announce open campaigns? I would open them as soon as possible.

Proposed Amendment

mongoose201 — Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:57:34 GMT

[quote]Article VI: Section 2. The first Senate shall have a term of 25 turns.[/quote]

I propose the following change:

[quote]Article VI: Section 2. The first Senate shall have a term of 75 turns.[/quote]

Reasoning: The Senate term was shortened for the first term to add the dynamic of the Presidential and Senatorial term being staggered. The premise being that the possible change in Legislature mid-Presidential term could add new facets to game play.

While I still think this reasoning holds true, I can't help but think that the stop the game really before it gets going 25 turns-in to elect a new Senate would be burdensome, indeed. Therefore, I propose a change to an initial Senatorial term of 75 turns, which would put it into the Second Presidential term.

Supreme Court Decision on electing a Senate Princeps

von Clausewitz — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:31:36 GMT

PREAMBLE

Under Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution, the task to "organize and oversee the elections of (...) the Princeps" falls to the Supreme Court. Further, consideration must be given to Article III Sections 4. The Senate shall elect from their number, by simple majority, a Princeps. By this decision the Supreme Court, consisting of Supreme Justices Von Clausewitz and Maniacalmonkey, takes such responsibility as is required of it by the Constitution, in order that a Princeps may be elected.

DECISION

By majority, the Supreme Court decides the following:

- That the Senators shall be given a period of 72 hours to announce their qualifications and desires for the position.

- That a single special board shall be used for such announcements, open and accessible to all the People, and that this thread shall function concurrently as a campaign area.

- That, at the end of the 72 hour period, the Supreme Court shall organize an election with all Senators as an option for Princeps.

- That an election shall consist of a single thread, open to be read but not accessible to reply by all the People, where the only replies may be made by the Senators, which lists all the Senators by alphabetical orders of their 'House', and an "Abstain" option, to run for 48 hours or all Senators have replied, whichever comes first.

- That, after 48 hours or all Senators have replied whichever comes first, the thread shall be closed by the Supreme Court, who shall then declare that candidate who has received the highest number of votes Princeps.

Justification

The Supreme Court is of the opinion that the decisions of the Senate should be an open record for the people, yet without outside interference. The Senate should not require a prolonged period of time to decide and elect among themselves a Princeps and a period of 72 hours to announce intent and 48 hours for voting by reply are considered reasonable time to conduct the business of electing a Princeps.

The Supreme Court is further of the opinion that all Senators are by default candidates for Princeps and that with five candidates there is no issue with elections by default.

Electing a Princeps

maniacalmonkey — Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:25:40 GMT

Article IV Section 2 of the Constitution requires the Supreme Court to organize and oversee the election of the Princeps, and execute the outcome thereof. This should be a relatively simple procedure, but there's a couple of things to consider.

I would suggest that, once the Senate is installed, the SC runs an election on public ballot, where only to the Senators may vote. In effect; the SC would make a post and all Senators reply stating which of their peers they vote for. For the sake of accountability I believe all Senate votes should be public, so we might as well start here.

As for candidacy, we can either ask Senators to declare candidacy whithin a brief period of time (effectively creating a short campaign period), or make all Senators candidates by default for the sake of expediency. I'm in favor of the latter, to get it done quickly so the Senate can get to work as soon as possible after the elections.

The Presidential Elections

maniacalmonkey — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 04:48:38 GMT

Amidst the fury of working out how to elect a Senate, let us not forget that we also have Presidential elections coming up :)

As it is the Supreme Court's responsibility to organise and oversee these, we are required to reach a decision on this. As it stands, fortunately, I believe this issue is fairly simple.

One candidate has been a bit forward in already starting his campaign, but I see no harm done here. I suggest the following:

Starting now, the campaign period will run for another seven days including this one, ergo it will end on Sunday the 18th of March.

On that day, the Supreme Court will announce the end of the campaign period. If, at that time, there are two or more candidates for the Presidency, a poll will be started listing all the candidates, to run for 72 hours. That candidate who gains the most votes will then be installed as President.

Should there be only one candidate at the end of the campaign period, that person shall be installed as President by default.

If my esteemed fellow Justice supports this proposal, we can label it as a decision of the Court and enact it.

Supreme Court Decision on Senate Elections

maniacalmonkey — Wed, 14 Mar 2007 06:30:43 GMT

[b]PREAMBLE[/b]

Under Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution, the task to "organize and oversee the elections of (...) the Senate" falls to the Supreme Court. Further, consideration must be given to Article I Sections 2 and 4, concerning candidacy for office and the execution of elections, and Article III Section 2, which stipulates that the Senate must be elected by the People. By this decision the Supreme Court, consisting of Supreme Justices Von Clausewitz and Maniacalmonkey, takes such responsibility as is required of it by the Constitution, in order that a Senate may be elected.

[b]DECISION[/b]

By majority, the Supreme Court decides the following:

- That the People shall be given a period of seven days to announce their candidacy, henceforth referred to as the "campaign period", and that such candidates shall pick a specific one out of the available seats to run for.

- That a special board shall be used for such announcements, open and accessible to all the People, and that this board shall function concurrently as a campaign area.

- That, at the end of the seven day campaign period, the Supreme Court shall declare those candidates who run unopposed for one seat Senator, or organize elections for those seats contested by two or more candidates.

- That an election for a specific seat, if necessary, shall consist of a poll, open and accessible to all the People, which lists all the candidates as they have announced themselves during the campaign period, and an "Abstain" option, to run for three days.

- That, after three days, the poll shall be closed by the Supreme Court, who shall then declare that candidate who has received the highest number of votes Senator.

[b]JUSTIFICATION[/b]

The Supreme Court is of the opinion that a campaign period of seven days, and an election period of three, combined with an open and accessible campaign board and election poll, satisfies the "ample time and opportunity" clauses of Article I Sections 2a and 4b.

The Supreme Court is further of the opinion that an unopposed candidate is elected by default; if not by popular vote, then by a failure of the People to put forth a contender, and, as such, considers that this interpretation of Article III Section 2, and the general wellfare of the Community - which would not be served by a hung election - outweigh Article I Section 4 in such an event.

The Supreme Court is further of the opinion that a system of Senate elections where candidates run for specific seats, is - under the current considerations of fairness, practicality, and adherence to the Constitution - the least imperfect, as compared to the alternatives. The Supreme Court recognizes that this system carries the peril of a narrow majority of the People dominating the whole of the Senate, but notes that a proportional representation of the People in the Senate is not required by the Constitution.

[b]NOTES[/b]

The Supreme Court recommends that this decision be re-formatted and passed into Law by the Senate.

The Supreme Court further recommends that, should the concerns voiced in the Justification of this decision become acute, the system be reviewed and, if necessary, adjusted or replaced altogether.

This decision shall be enacted when a majority of the Supreme Justices have signed off "yea".

Organizing the Senate Elections

von Clausewitz — Sat, 10 Mar 2007 23:49:50 GMT

How do we fit X number of candidates into 5 equal positions? Its going to be easy if there are only 5 candidates, but things get complicated from there. Options suggested so far:

1. Candidates run for Senator

2. Candidates run randomly opposed

3. Candidates run for specific seats

4. Candidates run as parties

5. Vote for Composition

6. Vote for Composition by PM Ballot

7. Have a poll for each Senate seat, sequentially.

8. Thumbs up/Thumbs down for individual candidates.

I think we have already discussed the pros and cons of each, but we are going to have to select one method sooner or later. Its going to come down to which ever is least ugly.

I know which ones I like - 3, 5, and maybe 8.

I know which ones I don't like - 6, 7, 2 and 4.

I think that 1 will try to evolve into 7. It may not make it the entire way, but it will try.

If there are 6 candidates, I think the best way to go about it is 5. Vote for Composition. The same way the SC elections were run. There will be 6 options. This is essentially a disguised form of 'thumbs down' in which the voters are choosing the group that exculdes one candidate.

If it is more then 6 candidates, I like 3. Candidates run for specific seats. The problem doing that is by then at least 7 candidates are on board and then we drop in the requirement that the select a district to run for. That needs to be an option from the start. The confident candidates will choose early, with the effect of accepting any challenges. The ones that choose later are picking off the weaker targets. The only real promlem comes when a strong candidate is the 9th or 10th and has to choose to run against a candidate is also strong.

Supreme Court Decision on Presidential Elections

maniacalmonkey — Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:00:58 GMT

[b]PREAMBLE[/b]

Under Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution, the task to "organize and oversee the elections of the Presidency" falls to the Supreme Court. Further, consideration must be given to Article I Sections 2 and 4, concerning candidacy for office and the execution of elections, and Article II Section 2, which stipulates that the President must be elected by the People. By this decision the Supreme Court, consisting of Supreme Justices Von Clausewitz and Maniacalmonkey, takes such responsibility as is required of it by the Constitution, in order that a President may be elected.

[b]DECISION[/b]

By majority, the Supreme Court decides the following:

- That the People shall be given a period of seven days to announce their candidacy, henceforth referred to as the "campaign period".

- That a special board shall be used for such announcements, open and accessible to all the People, and that this board shall function concurrently as a campaign area.

- That, at the end of the seven day campaign period, the Supreme Court shall declare the candidate President, if there is only one, or organize an election, if there are more.

- That an election, if necessary, shall consist of a poll, open and accessible to all the People, which lists all the candidates as they have announced themselves during the campaign period, and an "Abstain" option, to run for three days.

- That, after three days, the poll shall be closed by the Supreme Court, who shall then declare that candidate who has received the highest number of votes President.

[b]JUSTIFICATION[/b]

The Supreme Court is of the opinion that a campaign period of seven days, and an election period of three, combined with an open and accessible campaign board and election poll, satisfies the "ample time and opportunity" clauses of Article I Sections 2a and 4b.

The Supreme Court is further of the opinion that an unopposed candidate is elected by default; if not by popular vote, then by a failure of the People to put forth a contender, and, as such, considers that this interpretation of Article II Section 2, and the general wellfare of the Community - which would not be served by a hung election - outweigh Article I Section 4 in such an event.

[b]NOTES[/b]

The Supreme Court recommends that this decision be re-formatted and passed into Law by the Senate.

This decision shall be enacted when a majority of the Supreme Justices have signed off "yea".