Finally! A good use for Spies!
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Finally! A good use for Spies! Expand / Collapse
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1/5/2004 3:06 AM
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This really goes under espionage, but we don't have a category for that. (Probably a good thing since it wouldn't be very large.)

I'll set up the scenario. C3C - Myself, Greece and Germany share a very large continent - of which I have about 2/3 of it. It was still large enough for both of them to have a good size empire - about 20 - 25 cities each. I haven't counted my cities, but let's just say that many of them have a 2 at the end of the name. (I don't rename them.) Anyway....

When Greece pulled a sneak attack, I took three of her cities and she begged for peace. As the Arabians, I didn't yet have my UU (or GA) and so, writing their name in my little red book, brokered a reasonable peace settlement. (Read they gave me money.)

Once I found, secured and connected the horses, my UU was ready ... and Greece was waiting. I acquired Cavalry quickly through some good deals and, after building 5 or 6 UUs, built many Cavs. I declared war and struck with my UU. Hello GA! A couple of my UU's went elite, so I didn't upgrade them to Cavs hoping to get a GL. Never did. :mad:

I captured a couple more cities and, since my people were getting too unhappy, had to settle for peace again. A real bummer, but I knew there would be another time....

A short time later, ol' Alex must've been pretty peaved and started diss'n Germany - which led to war. Cool! I'll sit back and watch to see what happens and increase my research rate towards Tanks and get some spies planted. Because of a relatively small border, mine was sealed off from either of them crossing. Oh yeah! Greece was between myself and Germany. Hehe.

After a while, Germany made significant headway and captured a Greek town very close to one of the ones I had captured (Athens) and, even though he only had riflemen, was too close for me. By now, I had tanks - a few of them and was just itching to get me a GL. After contemplating an out-and-out attack, I decided against it since the "just taken" city wasn't within good striking distance (mountains and hills on my side), but was ripe for the taking. If I could capture it though, I had a sufficient amount of full-health Calvary that could get there that turn and defend the city (probably) until other units two moves away could get there. One problem, I didn't know what kind of units were on the other side - nor how many - but the best they could be is riflemen and not that many since Greece and Germany had a very long border.

I had successfully planted a spy (earlier) in Greece and Germany. So, I figured why not give it a try. The town was a size three and shouldn't cost too much. Shift-E - select Germany - select Initiate Propaganda - select the town - execute - wam! bam! Hello! For a measely 167 gold, I had me a town defended by one regular infantry, and shortly thereafter - 12 Calvary (unfortified). Germany had 6 riflemen and a spearman which would have enter the city on the next turn. Woo hoo! And those Greeks were more than glad to have me there - freeing them of their oppressors!

Next turn, that old German coot captured another Greek town close to another I had captured then moved deeper into my non-barred territory (since the take-over). Now that wasn't nice! So, I did the same thing with the other town (and got it), moved in several more units (more than enough) and then politely demanded that he leave my territory. He must've been drunk with something, because he declared war. Big mistake - for him. Good for me. Because of him, I now have two armies (and the Heroic Epic), am slowly but surely closing him in and "shrinking" the size of the border between he and I. In the process, Greece is down to 5 cities and Germany is down to 4 or 5.

That's the first time I've ever been able to use propaganda successfully - in civ3.

The other continent now only has the Carthiginians and Russians - down from them, Spain and the Mongols. This should be interesting!
1/5/2004 3:20 AM


Prince of The JODASA

Prince of The JODASA

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Damn, I wish my spies would do something other than cost money and tell me how many troops there are total. I'm glad they are helping someone though. Congatulations and good luck with that.
1/5/2004 8:39 AM
Veteran Warlord

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One thing about many of the members' posts here-- they're detailed! I enjoy the in-depth, play-by-play (like this one!) revealing the thought processes behind the decisions..

Speaking of decisions, obviously I'd like to play multiplayer, but I've never tried basically b/c I feel like I'm a "slow" player. Any suggestions for what I can be doing now in my single player games to make sure when I _DO_ attempt a multiplayer game I'm not holding everyone up? It's nothing for me to take 40hrs to play a large c3c game out... (that's 40hrs across a week)
1/5/2004 9:26 AM


Where's Johnny!

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167 Gold?!?

That is stupid cheap! I dont check it too often because when I used to I would drop my jaw at how expensive it was to Propigate a city flip (vs. Civ2 where many a game was won without firing a single shell).
I will have to check this more often in the future ... Thanks for the story DV!
1/5/2004 9:43 AM


Conscript Rabbi

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I have tried this a million times. Usually I get the result: 'the * are not susceptible for propaganda' Once I had 'your program was unsuccesful'. I wonder, if you succeed, would the AI know the city flipped because of propaganda? Would it give you a rep hit?
1/5/2004 10:36 AM
Veteran Warlord

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As long as it doesn't fail I don't think there's any rep hit.
1/5/2004 11:26 AM
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I believe it was successful because the conditions were just right. I have a strong overall culture (the strongest) and I had established a good strong cultural presence in the captured Greek cities to offset the (old) Greek cities with a LOT of culture. Since the city had just been taken (during the AI turn) there may have been only one unit in the town and all (or most) of the town in rebellion. At 167 gold it was well worth the gamble. OH! One other thing I just realized. There was only one option to select - Safely (167 gold). It registered then, but more so now (after sleep) that the other two options (immediately and whatever-it-is-medium) were greyed out. I've never seen that before. Hmmmm.
1/5/2004 11:55 AM


EVERYBODY PANIC!!!

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In my experience, if someone JUST took a small city, and have almost no defense, they seem much more susceptible to propaganda.

I wonder how much cultural infuences have on them flipping to you, or how big the city is (the small ones seem to flip easier in my experience).
1/6/2004 1:05 PM


Second Lieutenant

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I will have to give this method a try. I think the key is that it was a newly capture city.

I once had a small forign cities in the middle of my empire with no culture value that just wouldnt flip. I trid propoganda to turn the city, and the morons declaired war on me. Needless to say I had the city that turn anyway, not to mention their whole empire under my control within a few turns.
1/6/2004 1:31 PM
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Exactly, Ness. It works on newly captured cities - and I was at peace with Germany - at the time. (BTW - they are now down to 2 cities, Berlin and Nuremburg. Both will fall next turn.)

Back on track - More importantly, it was a former ENEMY of mine (who's still furious at me) whose city was taken over by a future (now present) enemy (of mine). I did it last night with another city of Greece under the same conditions - just captured that turn and very little gold (153 or somewhere in there). It was one of Germany's last remote units on Greek land - close to my borders. It think that is key since the captures are pissed at the "oppressors", your cultural influence is strong, the captor's influence is weak and you are at peace with the captive civ.

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