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Junkyard Dawg - Any questions?!
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sweetP
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You know, I hate to say this, but I think a lot of such of Kanda"s theories upon abstract things are, well, nonsense. Borders expand based on a city's culture rating, and they expand straight outwards. Borders do not expand a certain way if so and so, and a different way if so and so. Who built what roads has no impact on anything. I often build my neighbor's rail network for him in preparation for an invasion. Does this mean that my borders will expand to include more of them?
Or do I just not get it? :confused:
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Emulator of Otto von Bismarck, Master of realpolitik, May he rest in peace.
But the liberals should be careful of screaming too loud ... of conspiring too well ... of undermining us too thoroughly. Because if they succeed, if they do get what they insist they want, then the result may well be something they never conceived ... "They have made a desolation, and they call it peace." ~Tacitus~ ... but a peace controlled by our former enemies.
--Tosk
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Game slut
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I think if the culture ratio is dramatically different the roads won't make much difference, but if it is close, it CAN make a difference. Thus, by the time of rails, and everyone has local culture in the teens, a road won't make much diff, but with ancient and even in part medieval era, a road CAN induce a tile to turn sooner, contributing to a quicker flip.
At least that is my anecdotal observation!
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tones (9/1/2009)
I was minded to compare this site to a sort-of-private Facebook, but, on reflection, that's not right . . . Nope. Here is a forum to exchange views and discuss topics and maybe have some literary fun; post some interesting pics (not Megabits of family krap); flag up some internet sites of Interest; pass on the occasional joke. To me, (struggling for analogy here) it's bit more like a quiet and cosy pub with locals you know and the occasional visitor from "outside"; thick stone walls and a cellar full of well-kept ale. Facebook, on the other hand, is some awful massive city-centre club that serves Fosters lager. And, you know what? I am not unhappy with that analogy. I prefer the pub.
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Junkyard Dawg - Any questions?!
Last Seen:
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sweetP
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Ah, but you see, the cultural control of tiles are not influenced by such abstract things. Its all numbers, I tell you! This is how it works:
A city controls a tile if its cultural level causes the city's inflence to overlap that square. When two citys of a different culture claim the same tile, several factors are considered...
If the tile is DIRECTLY adjacent to the city, that closest city will always claim it, nomatter what the cultural strength of each city, unless BOTH cities are directly adjacent to it. In that case, the city with the highest culture controls the tile.
If the tile is within the WORKABLE radius (fat X) of a city, that city will always control that tile, unless the rival city is closer, as above. If both cities have that tile within the workable radius, the city with the highest culture controls the tile.
If the tile outside of the workable radius of BOTH cities, then whichever city has the highest culture automatically controls the tile.
Anyone care to back me up with this? Perhaps Kring knows of an article somewhere, and could provide a link to it?
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Emulator of Otto von Bismarck, Master of realpolitik, May he rest in peace.
But the liberals should be careful of screaming too loud ... of conspiring too well ... of undermining us too thoroughly. Because if they succeed, if they do get what they insist they want, then the result may well be something they never conceived ... "They have made a desolation, and they call it peace." ~Tacitus~ ... but a peace controlled by our former enemies.
--Tosk
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Junkyard Dawg - Any questions?!
Last Seen:
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That is correct, simplistically and accurately stated . I've seen the same thing written before. I was speaking more towards 3 or 4 opposing civs having cities close enough to overlap cultural borders and/or workable tiles. I've planted settlements in this way more than once for my cultural wars (which is every game - no matter the outcome/type of victory).
I've also planted a settlement right smack dab in the middle of another's territory (before they claimed it all) - and I mean 3 - 4 cities deep in their territory, completely surrounded by their culture. The growth of the cultural boundaries was definitely interesting in all cases and was never, always uniform. I was never able to convert all of their settlements back to "the border", but my one city ultimately "converted" three Roman towns/cities before the end of the game. That was long ago though, in the vanilla version - or maybe the beginning of PTW.
No matter whether it is roads that influence it or not, it is not just the culture of the settlement itself, but also that of the surrounding towns (if any) and the overall culture of the civs. In the case of the Roman scenario above, I had some pretty funky looking cultural borders - far from normal looking - especially on the side closest to their capital (which was several towns away). Although I've never tried to prove it, I'm inclined to think that culture grows in two ways:
1) Out from the capital and other cultural (Wonder) "areas"; and
2) Symmetrically from the towns, but (when "pressured" by other culture) more towards the capital.
3) When cultural boundaries "meet", cultural "pressure" is applied outward towards the opposing culture if, and only if, there is sufficient cultural pressure from the "core" or capital-area cities and cultural regions.
Here's what the last statement means in a little more detail. It's really two-fold.
Cultural Integrity - This is the meeting and interlocking of your own civ's culture generated by each city as it produces culture-generating buildings and the "pressure-fighting/resisting" ability of your civ and towns. All culture pushes out from your capital - as is evidenced when you first build your capital and it's infrastructure. From there, you expand by creating more cities which in turn "output" more culture. In this fashion, you expand your culture - outward. As your cultural boundary is filled in, the culture pushes towards the outer boundaries putting pressure on the "other" towns. Typically, higher cultural integrity is produced by building culture-producing buildings very early. Cities which are placed too far apart have a harder time (takes longer) for the cultures to meet and thusly influence each other. The same is true of early established regional centers. These regional centers are a cluster of cities which we started early in the game. Very early founded cities such as was generated by goody huts, etc. These may or may not have Wonders in them, but they do most of the time.
Cultural Pressure - This is the ability of your towns, regions and civ to withstand and/or overcome the culture of the other civ. The first part (integrity) describes the ability to withstand external pressure from another civ. Mainly, by building up your own culture. Fortunately, this works in another way as well. As you are building up your ability to withstand another cultural presence, you are also building the ability to produce your own pressure against them. ... and it all boils down to numbers ... pretty much. How much pressure you apply against the enemy is determined by how early you get culture producing improvements built. The early the better. The more, the merrier. Early is the biggest key since your culture producing improvements produce even more culture. Later, when you are expanding via "not-culture", building quickly (to retain) may be necessary.
(Hopefully, I didn't forget anything.)
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I have dug on farms and in gardens and in road work and on the railroad, but it takes big shells dropping close to make you really dig. - A C (Sgt.) York
My latest "life quote" -
It is what it is ...
"Censorship does not interfere with the constitutional rights of every American to sit alone in a dark room in the nude and cuss. There are realistic taboos, especially regarding political comments. Our leaders were not elected to be tittered at. For example, we're allowed to say Ronald Reagan is a lousy actor, but we're not allowed to say he's a lousy governor-which is ridiculous. We know he's a good actor. And we're not allowed to make fun of President 'Johnston'. But if we praise him, who would believe it?" - Pat Paulsen
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Game slut
Last Seen:
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If the tile is DIRECTLY adjacent to the city, that closest city will always claim it, nomatter what the cultural strength of each city, unless BOTH cities are directly adjacent to it.
This is not true Psweet. If a massively culturally influential city is close to other cities that have miniscule culture, the boundary will keep pushing back into the weaker cultures territory, progressively claiming more more tiles, and eventually cities themselves. It is when the AI manages to keep up in cultural development that the boundary does not shift much.
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tones (9/1/2009)
I was minded to compare this site to a sort-of-private Facebook, but, on reflection, that's not right . . . Nope. Here is a forum to exchange views and discuss topics and maybe have some literary fun; post some interesting pics (not Megabits of family krap); flag up some internet sites of Interest; pass on the occasional joke. To me, (struggling for analogy here) it's bit more like a quiet and cosy pub with locals you know and the occasional visitor from "outside"; thick stone walls and a cellar full of well-kept ale. Facebook, on the other hand, is some awful massive city-centre club that serves Fosters lager. And, you know what? I am not unhappy with that analogy. I prefer the pub.
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Notorious Thread Killer
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sweetP
Last Seen:
5/10/2009 7:42 PM
Posts: 4,829
Visits: 8,484
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I'm crowding out has his boundary pushed all the way up to it's doors. He has a small strip of land and that's it.
But the city directly adjacent to a tile WILL always control that tile...unless, as I said, the "other" city is also adjacent to that same tile. In other words, if the cities are two squares apart, then and only then will there be a city that does not have control of those tiles directly adjacent to it.
A screenshot would certainly help, Grish. I have had my capital of five wonders and all improvements sitting next to some idiot's size three town with NO CULTURE, and not only did that city not flip, but also, and more related to the topic, that city still controlled those tiles next to it.
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Emulator of Otto von Bismarck, Master of realpolitik, May he rest in peace.
But the liberals should be careful of screaming too loud ... of conspiring too well ... of undermining us too thoroughly. Because if they succeed, if they do get what they insist they want, then the result may well be something they never conceived ... "They have made a desolation, and they call it peace." ~Tacitus~ ... but a peace controlled by our former enemies.
--Tosk
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