Renegotiating deals... hmm

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Renegotiating deals... hmm

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Comedy Dave

5/8/2004 5:11 AM

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Just found something quite interesting... C3C, V1.22 I'm trading my luxuries for gold per turn, and have the 'always renegotiate deals' option on. Sometimes I find that when you renegotiate deals manually (speaking to the AI after the 20th turn, before it pops up automatically) the AI will not want to accept - the advisor says no way. However, if you end that turn and instead let the deal pop up automatically to renegotiate, the AI will usually accept the deal - say 90% of the time. If you try and alter the terms, before you even change anything the advisor then says 'no way'. I tested this out by loading and saving and found this happens fairly often. Is this a bug that allows you to rip off the AI? One AI player that was getting bashed badly was still happy to give me 40gold per turn - I'm sure all of his money. Although he would not accept if I manually tried to renegotiate. I'll see if I can find a save to post... Edit: Yay - Post 100!
-- C3C Emperor C4BTS Prince <<--- view my flickr photos!

Leo

5/8/2004 8:51 AM

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I've wondered this myself. It's always a gamble to do the "would you listen to my counter-offer." Do you take the amount they are already giving you, or do you gamble and try to get one more gpt? I look at it like Civ Lotto. But I do know the scenario you're talking about...you're not imagining it.
-- --------------------------------------------- Any word you had to look up in a thesaurus is the wrong one.

Kanda

5/10/2004 3:11 AM

Kanda¡ Jalen Eirsie

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Greetings... Hmmmm.... I've wondered this myself. It's always a gamble to do the "would you listen to my counter-offer." Do you take the amount they are already giving you, or do you gamble and try to get one more gpt? I look at it like Civ Lotto. I can't confirm this... Say the AI comes up during it's turn and says - "You know, I think we should just let this agreement die" - I ALWAYS hit "Okay sure I understand", then hit I want to make an offer -and I almost ALWAYS get even MORE money for the same thing that he just stopped! Or say, whenever the AI comes up and says I'll give you my world map for your world map, I ALWAYS hit Counteroffer - take off his map, and ask him what he will offer for mine, and it's ALWAYS a better deal! He'll throw in cash or techs along with his own map! Maybe it's just the way I play, but I don't think I've ever experienced the effect that is described above...
-- . ll . Kanda' Yes, of course the Bomber mission failed! - It was performed by Elites! How come nobody ever notices the ' at the end of my name? Kanda is NOT the same as Kanda'...

RabiAkiva

5/10/2004 5:34 AM

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There were some odd occurances when I couldn't renegotiate until the original offer. In general, my observation is like Kanda's: the AI makes an offer and that is always a low bid. You can get more out of it. Most of the time. It is a question though whether it is wise to go for more. The AI offers, what it perceives as a 'fair' deal. If you accept, they are very happy about you and that, in the long run, may be a better pay off. It doesn't mean I do not renegotiate at all. Especially the map swap offers, I always renegotiate as described above: What would you offer for my map? But then I take what they offer (if it is a good pay off) and do not renegotiate untill I get the highest bid possible -- that is what eventually ticks them off. "Don't go and use those merchant tricks on me!"
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Leo

5/10/2004 6:44 AM

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The thing I was describing is when they are already paying you and want to keep on paying...it's the "why are you here" message you get for always renegotiate deals. They don't want to stop it, but theyr'e there because you told the computer to renegotiate in 20 turns. So they want to keep getting your luxury but they may not be able to really afford the rate you're charging. I get this a lot when I tech-pimp to that civ or trade lots of resources... So say I'm getting 30 gpt for ivory...it comes up with the ivory and 30 gpt...I click on the deal, take away the 30 gpt and ask what they'd give...they come in at 25...I push it up to 40...they say they can't...click, click, click...jeez why ain't there a slider...uhoh, they can't even make the original 30...never accept this deal until 27 gpt...that means they're not making more than 27 gpt...dang it...if I'd left it at 30 I'd still be getting it but since I renegotiated now I'm getting less. The nice thing is, if this happens, it means I'm running them into the dirt economically.
-- --------------------------------------------- Any word you had to look up in a thesaurus is the wrong one.

RabiAkiva

5/10/2004 7:34 AM

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I get the picture. Would you say ESCAPE allows you to quit the screen and continue the 30 GPT deal?
-- Hypocrisy is sin's reverence to virtue Mood today: ↑ Grab this Headline Animator

Comedy Dave

5/10/2004 8:11 AM

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Leo - Haha "Civ Lotto" - I like it! Here's an example save. It's from my recent Emperor game, hence why I'm not doing too well in it... I tried the following... Spain is giving me 36gp per turn for my ivory. The 20 turns since the start of the deal have just passed. If I go and click on the Spanish and try and renegotiate the deal myself, they won't accept this deal, or any deal for my ivory. However, if I reload the save and end the turn, letting the auto-renegotiate occur, the Spanish are more than happy to re-accept the 36gp for ivory deal. If I try a counter-proposal they won't accept the same deal. The advisor says "They would never accept this deal" Of course this won't work if you have auto-renegotiate switched off!
-- C3C Emperor C4BTS Prince <<--- view my flickr photos!

Leo

5/10/2004 8:14 AM

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Actually just hitting accept will continue the deal, but once you renegotiate and it comes up less...if you hit escape the deal just won't go through since it's a new deal that you haven't accepted.
-- --------------------------------------------- Any word you had to look up in a thesaurus is the wrong one.

ShaddowKatMkII

5/17/2004 9:14 PM

How did you know?

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Another factor and I can't help but wonder... I've been getting 53 GPT combined for three Luxuries from France. It's been going on for at least 60-80 turns, and probably will go on until I break the treaties or I go to war with them. (and I just got 70GPT frome them for a tech deal, but that's another story). Could it be that they had their Golden Age (it was distinctly possible since it would have been around when they got Gunpowder and triggered it with Muskets) and that the deal they made for the luxuries were besed on their income from the Golden Age and NOT from the regular income and somehow this high rate is acceptable? ...or is it that they're just that desparate to get those luxuries...?
-- Okay... Has anyone seen my Civ discs??? .... I really need to play again!

Leo

5/17/2004 9:46 PM

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It could be...sounds reasonable. If they had their GA and started it then...and grew as most people do during the GA...France being commercial, might have caught up to that rate. Add to the fact that with this burgeoning population that it's hard to keep them happy...yeah could be both. The AI gets hooked on luxuries...I just love being their spice dealer. He who controls the Spice, controls the Universe!
-- --------------------------------------------- Any word you had to look up in a thesaurus is the wrong one.

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