Unrealistic Behavior
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Unrealistic Behavior Expand / Collapse
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11/3/2006 1:01 AM
Settler

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11/5/2006 5:58 AM


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I've got Civ 3 with Conquests loaded.

Playing Civ 3, I'm at the most-basic difficulty level, and I'm getting very frustrated by two things:

#1. Trading; it is EXTREMELY rare to be able to make an even trade. Almost invariably, the computer makes the enemy demand an insane amount for ANYTHING.....somehow, I seriously doubt that the computer is this rough on itself.  By that I mean, if I am Rome, and I ask for something from France, France demands twice as much in exchange.  However, if Germany asks for the same exact thing, computer asking computer, I dont' think that France asks for as much from Germany as it demanded from me....and NO, I don't think this has anything to do with factors in the game, such as France and Germany having a previous good relationship.  I'm saying that under the exact same conditions, me, as the human player, gets lousy deals, ALL THE TIME.

#2. Pig Pile.  Again and again, I've built myself up, had a bully demand something, told them to take a flying leap. They then declare war, and I fight back.  Suddenly, THE ENTIRE WORLD declares war on me!  I mean, I'm tough and smart, but no one can fight odds like that.  Again, I suspect the computer is being extremely unfair to the human player with this "pig pile" phenomenon.

11/3/2006 7:46 AM


huff huff

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Your insites on both issues are both correct and incorrect.  It is very true that the computer trades unfairly, and that they will gang up on the human player especially if he is #1 in score...  However your thoughts that your previous actions don't matter towards that outcome are false.  Also, you have the ability to "buy" some of the AI on your side during such wars if you are friendly to them, which is some of what the AI is doing with it'self.  Don't overlook your own potential allies.
11/3/2006 9:04 AM


General

General

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Yes, you are correct that the AI is easier on trading with other AI civs...this is because the game designers knew when they made the game that the human is always smarter, it's a way to 'balance' the game.

You're being ganged up on for one of two reasons...either you are number 1, in which case you will always get ganged up upon...you can get alliances before this to avoid it.

Or you're being ganged up on because you are significantly weaker than most of the AI's...you always want a big military, sadly, or at very least a small one of the highest tech units possible...if you have this small force, you'll still get ganged up on, but you can crush a lot of their units and demand peace treaties (unfair, you can RAPE them at this point).

Another thing to remember is the AI's will ally with your enemies at the start of the war, but unless they can do it easily will not actually invade you...it's a way to make good diplomatic points without fighting, and one you can do too.  France goes to war with Germany, who is on the other side of France from you.  They ask you to ally, you demand something in return and they give it to you and you don't fight at all...20 turns later, you make peace with Germany.

11/3/2006 10:09 PM
Settler

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Thanks for your replies.

I am aware of most of what has been said.....I had simply forgotten why I stopped playing Civ3 Conquests. 

The AI imbalance and unfairness simply takes every drop of enjoyment out of the game.  You are actually PUNISHED for doing well.....if an AI country is #1, will all the other AI countries gang up on it?  NOOOOOO!

But if you get ahead, yes, they will vicously pigpile on you, making the odds completely and literally utterly hopeless, wiping out hours and hours and hours of painstaking work you spent building up.

Grotesque.  This reminds me why I switched over to Empire Earth.

11/4/2006 12:48 PM


Wibble!

Wibble!

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.if an AI country is #1, will all the other AI countries gang up on it? NOOOOOO!

They do if you... 'encourage' them
11/4/2006 10:37 PM
Forum Slayer

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11/1/2008 12:55 PM


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Sorry if i am being Rude, but i have to call you a complete N00B!

It is easy to win versus the AI at lower levels, just expand, make a military, romp over them. And as for them ganging up on you, you need to make Friends! They can be permanent or Temporary, But i prefer Temporary, If any Ai seems to be getting too strong, bribe the others into a alliance.

In other words, Just read the wisdom stored here at 1BC.

11/5/2006 12:09 AM


huff huff

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I have several times won a 15 to one world war on Regent settings...   Playing as an agressive human, with a self imposed penalty of not allowing peace once war breaks out, most fun games I ever played.    So don't say it's impossible to win a "pigpile" on the easiest levels...  Just don't try it above Monarch.  You need friends there.
12/3/2006 10:28 PM
Banned

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I know I'm getting in late on this, but, I've learned to use the editor's to create Mods and alter the rules so that this AI "cheating" is nulled.  When you edit the rules pay attention to the warning screen that appears.

     Creating your own worlds atleast, gives you some control over AI.  And it's a blast once and awhile, to start them off so much weaker or ill positioned.  Like not giving them any resources, tactical or otherwise.  If you need to vent, go into the Editor's and have fun.   

12/4/2006 8:29 AM


Game slut

Game slut

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I empathize with your pain The way the game behaves can be very frustrating from time to time. But I do not think it is so far from reality. For example: current Iraq war. Despite the fact that the U.S. has been one of the most giving nations of them all in the last 100 years, and was the quarterback of the team that beat fascism, and "won" the Cold War, a LARGE chunk of the "AI" on Earth have jumped on the "pig-pile" (in a diplomatic war) against US-UK-etc. alliance for one reason: they are #1.

Napoleon's biggest mistake was alienating everyone around him (similar to Hitler). Had he known when make friends and influence people and make some concessions, the rest of the world would not necessarily have ganged up on him, and we might be speaking French right now!

There are in fact countless examples throughout history of human leaders/societies engaging in exactly the sort of ruthless, calculating, self-serving shifting of allegiances you have observed in the AI. While it is not a very soothing realization, the game shows quite clearly what Machiavelli wrote about 400 years ago. A Prince must be "Machiavellian" else he will quickly be no longer a prince, and quite possibly dead.

Conniving within the mechanisms and limitations of the game engine is sadly a reflection of the fact that it is a game. Any game is a limited reflection of realism by virtue of being a game. But I would not say that this particular game _defies_ reality. It merely represents it in a somewhat abstracted, artificial and generalized way.

The AI-AI trading and conniving is exceptionally annoying at about Emperor level, and I don't even see how people enjoy the game above that difficulty. On Regent, where one has parity in build and research costs with the AI, it is annoying until you learn the game so well that thinking ahead and seeing the larger implications becomes second nature. I agree that, if you are just looking for a mind-numbing Ms. Pacman might be alot better than enduring this kind of learning curve! But once you "figure out" how to compete against the AI on its terms and on parity (Regent) there are many fun scenarios to be played out. The move up to Monarch from Regent is probably the most fun milestone of them all. I never actually manifest the patience to make the move up to being a consistent Emperor player, but if one has the determination to do so, I reckon that one can be equally rewarding to learn. The other thing is that, the game does get more tedious, with greater necessity to build lots of units, and to think through each and every move for each and every unit (diplomatic action, build queue, etc.) in the higher difficulties. In short, the margin for error gets smaller and smaller as the difficulty levels go up.

I do remember one Emperor Game I was playing as Inca. I was fighting off swarms of infantry and tanks using stacks riflemen cannon and knight armies! Had I had the patience to stick it out, I might have actually won that one before time out!

12/4/2006 11:18 AM


THE 1BC 5 STAR GENERAL

THE 1BC 5 STAR GENERAL

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Havnt played civ III in a while now because of cIV, but from what I remember you guys have said it all lol.

Grotesque.  This reminds me why I switched over to Empire Earth.

I love that game.  Whenever i need a break from cIV and turn based games, thats what I play.  Do you play online at all????  If so, e-mail me kyle.georges@gmail.com

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