Senate Authorization Draft (Discussion)
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Senate Authorization Draft (Discussion)Expand / Collapse
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5/28/2007 10:13 PM
Bismarcko' Magnifico

Bismarcko' Magnifico

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This sounds simple enough... opinions?

4. The President must deliver a full and comprehensive report before the People and the Senate after every period of ten turns, or when he reaches a point where a decision of the People, the Senate, or the Supreme Court is required to continue play, whichever may come first.

4a. In addition, the President must request the Senate's authorization to continue play, after delivering a full comprehensive report. In this request, he will include a summary of his plans regarding foreign affairs, city production, and unit orders for those 10 turns.

5. The President must present a request to the Senate, and have it approved by simple majority of the Senate, if he wishes to:

- Found a new settlement.

- Disband an existing settlement.

- Adjust Civics.

- Engage in treaties with a foreign power.

- Engage in acts of war with a foreign power.

- Construct a Wonder.

- Use up a Great Person.

- Continue play every 10 turns


5/28/2007 11:27 PM


Sword of Doom...

Sword of Doom...

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You do realize that this pretty much ensures that nobody else will run for President. I've run unopposed (Effectively unopposed as Tosk didn't have the ability to play the game) in the previous two elections and I suspect I'll have to run again because, of those who have Warlords, nobody else seems to want to invest the time that merely playing the turns and putting together a report requires. 2-3+ hours with some of the turns/reports. It takes this long because I'm trying to provide enough information so that everyone will understand our position, even those who don't have CivIV or Warlords.

So, not only is the President the most time consuming office before this proposed change, but the time the Presidency requires will nearly double if this goes into effect.

Granted, this is the Senate's call, not the President's, but I thought I would give my 2 cents.

5/29/2007 12:37 AM


G'day

G'day

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Hmm... i suppose this goes back to whether we want a faster game, with less interaction, or a slower game, with more interaction.

Biz - nice and succinct. But how big/detailed would the president's summary have to be? A paragraph? A few paragraphs?

Mongoose, in regards to your points, the way I see the President's reports are that they are beefed up versions of the kind of reports you would see in a Dynasty game. I.e. more screenshots, more descriptions etc.

Part of writing a dynasty game report often involves some thoughts/suggestions on what should happen in the next session. This is usually just a few sentences. Obviously in the DGame this would require a bit more detail, and then a discussion with the Senate as to how to proceed.

This sounds like it wouldn't take much extra time early in the game, but as the game progresses then obviously it will take more time/effort.

It's a shame that there is no-one out there with Warlords who is willing to run for President too. I'm still a few months away from upgrading my computer, so I probably wouldn't be able to get involved until at least then, but at least I can be involved at the senate level.

One thought here - if the senate takes some time to discuss plans for the next 10 turns, this means the president wouldn't be playing turns as often. So average amount of time spent in a given week on playing might be less? Does that make sense?

5/29/2007 1:02 AM
Bismarcko' Magnifico

Bismarcko' Magnifico

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I don't see why this would increase the difficulty of the President's job...

There's nothing asked in the above draft but a request in the form of a summary, which is basically a brief explanation in it's very definition. We're not going to be asking you, or any future president, to write what you're going to be doing every turn step by step. At the least, what is being asked, is that the President highlight the key things he plans to do, and allow us (the senate) some room to participate in the game play, with more then just suggestions from the sidelines.

5/29/2007 2:05 AM


G'day

G'day

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And the beauty of that is, if the President gives a very basic summary for future plans, it gives more latitude for the Senate to come up with the remainder...
5/29/2007 6:02 AM


Grognard fantôme

Grognard fantôme

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I'm going to have to agree with Mongoose on this one. I do not think that saddling the President (or anyone else for that matter) with more obligations and responsibilities is a way to 'promote' this Dgame. Given the obviously mediocre interest it has garnered already, trying to milk it for 'more' is more likely to kill it. Lets just keep going pretty much as is, else with nomimal changes that will not put additional burdens on anyone, but maybe change viewpoints a tad bit. When the game gets more complicated and we have a dozen or more military units, more cities, more diplomatic exploration, etc., options, etc., then the chance that more interest can be promoted by making DGame roles more detailed etc. will exist. As it is, we are still a pre-iron, pre-writing, pre-monarchy TRIBE! but we are trying to run this DGame like we are some sort of sophisticated post-Renaissance representative democracy!
5/29/2007 7:09 AM


G'day

G'day

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I don't think Biz was expecting the president to write an essay for each report. Surely at present it would take 5-10mins tops to write some thoughts on how to play the next 10 turns. I don't envisage it would be a pedantic report, just some general ideas on what the president intends to do next. At least then the framework would be in place for when there is more going on in the game.

The thing is, as Biz mentioned, we don't have much interest because effectively only the President actually seems to _do_ things at the moment. If the senate actually has a bit more clout, then those of us without Warlords can actually still shape how the game pans out.

5/29/2007 10:38 AM


Grognard fantôme

Grognard fantôme

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Comedy Dave (5/29/2007)
I don't think Biz was expecting the president to write an essay for each report. Surely at present it would take 5-10mins tops to write some thoughts on how to play the next 10 turns. I don't envisage it would be a pedantic report, just some general ideas on what the president intends to do next. At least then the framework would be in place for when there is more going on in the game.

The thing is, as Biz mentioned, we don't have much interest because effectively only the President actually seems to _do_ things at the moment. If the senate actually has a bit more clout, then those of us without Warlords can actually still shape how the game pans out.

I don't see the govt. structure or lack thereof in the game as being the primary cause for the minimal interest. There has never been an amazing degree of interest. Heck, there are only a few of us actually own Warlords. That right there shows that there is not really that much interest in the game Warlords itself, let alone in this DGame.

If even half the citizens owned Warlords, and were speaking from experience instead of supposition, and/or were clamoring for a bigger role in the govt, then the sorts of changes you guys have thought of would seem appropriate. But given that so few citizens have actually run for govt positions, and so few citizens have actually played the game, I just don't think that changes to the govt (particularly adding responsibility to govt roles) is going to generate more interest in the game. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion.

5/29/2007 3:56 PM


General

General

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If the senate wants to be more involved, why doesn't the *senate* write up a set of directions for every 10-turn session? Call it guidelines, call it advice, call it something to talk about...

In Civ4 (for those of you who don't have it and for those of you who don't get it) you have to think farfar into the future. You have to decide up front what a city is going to be. One industrial "capital" is all you need to get a ton of wonders or a unit factory. One science "capital" is all you need to stay competitive. I haven't tried it yet, but you can specialize a city in pumping out great people. Irrigate everywhere and use a ton of specialists.

To me (a civ4 rookie) it feels like we're playing civ3 here. The important issues do not get attention. What do we *want* with Bibracte? It is a grand capital for sure; it can do it all. But we need to specialize. We need to set goals beyond a mere senate's or president's term. We need to discuss what our aims are techwise, so we can pave the dirt path for great projects. We need to decide whether we'll have open borders so we can send forth our missionaries (and build some very lucrative wonders that will give gold or beakers per (state) religious structure). Ten turn discussions just are not going to cut it.

Some questions for the near future:
- how many workers do we need for that jungle?
- how many units do we need for the barbarian pest?
- what early wonder should we try for?

I hope that doesn't sound too much like I'm running for office.