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Do you have BtS?Expand / Collapse
Do you have the Beyond the Sword expansion...
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yes
 
66.67%
12
no
 
33.33%
6
Member Votes: 18, Anonymous Votes: 0. You don't have permission to vote within this poll.
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8/26/2007 5:16 AM


Grognard fantôme

Grognard fantôme

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Palpster (8/25/2007)
Advanced starts won't do the trick, they only really work in multiplayer. Just to do some testing I started one against the AI with an insane amount of points. The AI just doesn't spend them....I start the game with about 750 points and they're at between 80 and 150. I'm fighting warriors and archers with curassiers. They ask me to give them fishing or sailing while I'm researching Astronomy. I think the only thing they had at game start was about 3 cities each, maybe with a worker, that's it.

The only thing to do would be for someone to recreate the game in World Builder, but that would probably take even longer than starting over from scratch.

Hmmm. I'm skeptical that this is the case. In my (limited and anecdotal) experience, the AI DOES get the points, and it DOES use them. I might be wrong. It would be good to know this for certain. If it is working the way you suggest, then the Advance Start option is really just a way to give the human an advantage at the beginning, and something tells me that this is not what it is intended to be; but I might be wrong. I cannot imagine why they would have 7 or 10 difficulty levels AND an advance start option mechanism for giving even finer shades of differentiation between the difficulty levels; but I might be wrong Then again, it may be that this was something they added fairly late in development, and did not have enough time to test and see if the AI 'understood' it sufficiently to use it properly.

The one thing that might be throwing you off is that the AI does not seem to view the Advance Start Points the same way we humans do. For me, if I use advance start to get a nice balanced situation: 3 to 4 cities; a few military units, a few workers, a couple naval; some culture expansion, maybe one key Tech (depending on how many points I have to spend). I think the AI tends to blow his points on: (a) population; (b) tile improvements; (c) culture and/or (c) cheapo units.

Examples, I started up a random standard map on Noble diff industrial era start, just to see how it worked. I set it at about 45,000 start points. I immediately set a city and a worker, some tile improvements, another city, then I spent about 20,000 some odd points on a Tech or two, and this allowed me to place some INFANTRY. I wound up with about 5 cities in the 3 to 4 pop size range, a modest amount of tile improvements, two key techs ahead (Communism, and the one for infantry, forget what it is), about 3 infantry, 3 riflemen, a couple pirates, a couple caravels, a couple frigates, and one worker.

The AI whom I first contacted meanwhile had seemingly zero additional techs beyond those that come with Industrial start, but had all cities above 6 or 7 size, and had many more tile improvements. His best units were riflemen.

8/26/2007 6:14 AM


Elite Warlord

Elite Warlord

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11/6/2007 2:46 AM


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You don't consider the AI never investing in tech a pretty big flaw in the system?

You could of course make this a bit fairer by not investing in tech yourself, but in the context of this thread that would mean everyone starts with the exact same techs....now I haven't been following the D-game all that much, but I'm pretty sure not every Civ is equal when it comes to techs, so this wouldn't be an accurate recreation of that game.

Advanced Starts as they are now seem more geared toward multiplayer. They get you started without the obligatory "press enter for next turn" at the start of the game.
8/26/2007 7:05 AM


Grognard fantôme

Grognard fantôme

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The thing that would take up a lot of time in 'recreating' our current game would be exactly replicating the map, and I don't think that is is necessary.

Instead, generate a new random map with same settings, and a start date that is Classical I suppose.

Make sure Celts are on an isolated continent by themselves. Make sure all the key resources that each tribe has access to are there, in their territories.

Give every civ the Techs, units, cities and buildings that it has. That's it.

It would still be quite laborious and tedious, and I don't have the time to do it myself, but it would not actually need to be as laborious and tedious as exactly replicating the map.

8/26/2007 12:04 PM


Elite Pathogen

Elite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite Pathogen

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I think that just starting from scratch is the way to go.  Tosk is right, there was no momentum to begin with.
8/26/2007 12:43 PM


General

General

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11/18/2008 10:51 PM


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Make sure Celts are on an isolated continent by themselves.
Ai, part of the problem was that the Celts were on an island all by themselv, um, OURselves. The calls for war would have been much more intriguing if neighbors had been within reach. To willfully recreate boring settings is... ill advised.
8/26/2007 3:39 PM


Dr Fluffy

Dr Fluffy

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I think that just starting from scratch is the way to go.  Tosk is right, there was no momentum to begin with.

I agree with my learned friends, and if we did go down the road of a two team game this discussion is moot as well.

8/26/2007 4:08 PM
Bismarcko' Magnifico

Bismarcko' Magnifico

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11/16/2008 2:20 PM


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A good number of people, who are involved in this discussion to restart, were very hands-off in the Warlords game.  After making that observation, I don't see how emulating the original map used in the Warlords game would satisfy our new player base more than just starting over.  Personally, as I've said elsewhere, I was very disinterested with the DGame due to my lack of the Warlords expansion at the time (which limited what positions I could run for, etc)... not to mention, as zig mentioned, our own starting position made the game rather slow due to our isolated continent.

I'm in favor of starting over, as it would personally spark new interest for me.  I also imagine the same interest would be generated for others (both new and old).

Start from scratch, imo.

8/26/2007 6:07 PM


Grognard fantôme

Grognard fantôme

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It was a boring map wasn't it. Maybe the next game should be on Noble difficulty, eh?
8/27/2007 5:52 AM


Dr Fluffy

Dr Fluffy

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With an advanced start?