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9/17/2007 12:51 PM


Elite Pathogen

Elite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite Pathogen

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Puff in favor of Koreans.  To be honest, I've not played them either, which makes it sound more fun. 

Despite the impression we may give to the outside world we will want to discuss strategy and tactics and make the best use of everyone's talents so that we win this thing. Failure is not an option here. We will not be beaten by a bunch of dozy democrats.

I agree wholeheartedly. 

My only gripe with this lot is with the double production speed of walls and castles - something I personally never build.

It may not be a bad idea to build them in this game.  Even as we do not want 'them' to know of our desire to discuss matters and overall strategy, they will no doubt try and give a false impression to us as well.  They may choose a very agressive policy towards us and against a human player, I think walls and even castles wouldn't be a bad idea, at least as a failsafe.  The fact that they are cheaper to build will make it seem like much less of a waste of time as well.  Still, I think we should be as agressive as we can throughout the entire game so we won't have to use our walls and castles.

9/17/2007 2:48 PM


Wrong

Wrong

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My only gripe with this lot is with the double production speed of walls and castles - something I personally never build.

The fact that they are cheaper to build will make it seem like much less of a waste of time as well.
You got me confused there for a second, tones. I thought it was double production cost because you were griping...

I'm by no means a warmonger, so I'd be interested to know what you guys consider an aggressive stance. How many units would you send out on a little excursion? In the current GOTM I steamrolled over Germany with about 10 Landsknechten, 2 crossbows and 6 siege engines. What's the ideal ratio of an attack force? What are the promotions you use? When I'm done with the GOTM I'll fire up some games against aggressive AIs to get used to building more units... (Can't live without libraries though, gotta have those... and those seowons... forges are good too... markets help... occasional wonder or two... )
9/17/2007 5:10 PM


Make my day

Make my day

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I'm by no means a warmonger, so I'd be interested to know what you guys consider an aggressive stance. How many units would you send out on a little excursion? In the current GOTM I steamrolled over Germany with about 10 Landsknechten, 2 crossbows and 6 siege engines. What's the ideal ratio of an attack force? What are the promotions you use?

Aggressive stance: that's quite an interesting question. It's relatively easy to fool the AI into regarding you as non-threatening, then launching a massive surprise attack early on. I'm quite a fan of that, though you gotta watch the economy. Or you can be quite passive and get away with an undersized army for ages, putting your efforts into buildings instead. But such tactics won't work against Alpha because, alas, they are not dumb. Aggressive in this game will mean building a powerful military and not being afraid to use it. It will also entail aggressive use of religion - spamming missionaries and relentlessly filling any "cushion" civs with our religion. Our tech choices will be heavily influenced by this stance as well.

How many units you send out on an excursion depends entirely on the circumstances, but to take a city without overwhelming tech superiority I use a rough rule-of-thumb of 2.5:1 minimum (attacker vs defender ratio)

Promotions within a stack: barrage and city raider for cats and the like; at least one good medic (usually a spearman or similar), at least one sentry (horse unit); the rest - combat promotions or city raider.

9/17/2007 6:41 PM


Wrong

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Heh, I've been asking similar questions for years, and no one has ever answered me straight -- until now! Well, it's a start anyway... With ratio I was really referring to siege : defense : attack.

I have played a lot of Warlords Battlecry, and I get the idea that it may be rather similar to that. You know that most of the units you send off will perish. But it's not about preserving units. It's about setting cities ablaze so you can produce more units while your opponent is rebuilding. So, um, in multiplayer do you target productive "core" cities and pretty much ignore their own outer "cushion" cities, or is that wishful thinking? Do you end up targeting the military (as against the AI in Civ3)?

Maybe someone should just show me how it's done in a little practice run... My internet access right now would not allow me more than one turn a day though, except on the weekend. If I manage to get the new patch on my laptop it could be a bit better. It'll be a cakewalk, I promise.
9/18/2007 5:25 AM


Make my day

Make my day

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With ratio I was really referring to siege : defense : attack.

No hard and fast rules here. I often attack without siege units at all. However, I would say 40% siege, 10% defense, 50% attack but that's just my opinion.

I have played a lot of Warlords Battlecry, and I get the idea that it may be rather similar to that. You know that most of the units you send off will perish. But it's not about preserving units.

Must disagree there. It is essential to preserve your top units. Siege units are the cannon fodder, if you'll escuse the pun. Heavily promoted units are indispensible on the battlefield and also affect military production Wonders (West Point, Heroic Epic) I often end up with units with XP's in the +30's

It's about setting cities ablaze so you can produce more units while your opponent is rebuilding.

It's about tipping the balance, yes.

So, um, in multiplayer do you target productive "core" cities and pretty much ignore their own outer "cushion" cities, or is that wishful thinking? Do you end up targeting the military (as against the AI in Civ3)?

Impossible to say until we see the circumstances. However, the ideal is to target the core cities whilst making them think we're not. Tricky, that. But burning a Capital would even be worth the sacrifice of a whole army. The outer cities will be rather harder than cushions So many strategies.......

Finally, I'd like to say that, although Korea seems a popular choice, I'd like folks to consider Spain and Carthaginia and maybe express their thoughts. I have also been pleasantly surprised with Ethiopia.

I'm not disagreeing with Korea, just want to make sure. If Mongoose lets us know what sort of map we'll be playing, that will certainly affect our decision. Alas, the crystal ball is cloudy.

Everything else being equal, I think we have one advantage with our system. No matter how they organise things, Alpha is bound to be a bit of a committee decision. We, on the other hand, will have different personalities taking over at regular intervals. That makes us unpredictable. And that's good for us and a worry for them.

9/18/2007 6:05 AM


Like the hair cut?

Like the hair cut?

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There's also this trait that gives you +100% great general production which is useful for getting military academies in your cities. I like it when you are fighting all the time.

I am no expert on combat but it seems to me we should try to rush for construction get our UU and start a war. Don't forget about spearman/pikies. We have to check what kind of units our enemy is using anyway. Flanking can be a ***!

Since the AI tends to build lots of longbowmen the +25% against archers may not be a bad upgrade. I always try to have a few units inside the stack that have defensive value as well. When you only have city attack your units will die against counter attacks.

9/18/2007 6:51 AM


Like the hair cut?

Like the hair cut?

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We should also consider to put some trade into spy points. Of course it will harm research but those spies can give us loads of fun especially against democratic civs.
9/18/2007 9:59 AM


Make my day

Make my day

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There's also this trait that gives you +100% great general production which is useful for getting military academies in your cities. I like it when you are fighting all the time.

That'll be the Imperialistic trait then. Not bad, but there are better. Do you really want to be fighting all the time?

I am no expert on combat but it seems to me we should try to rush for construction get our UU and start a war. Don't forget about spearman/pikies. We have to check what kind of units our enemy is using anyway. Flanking can be a ***!

Well the Korean UU will be useful, but no need to rush for it and start a war. It depends on circumstances, surely?

Since the AI tends to build lots of longbowmen the +25% against archers may not be a bad upgrade.

We don't have to worry about the AI. Those civs are to be used as required. They are either useful to us in some way, or dogmeat. However, you make a fair point.

I always try to have a few units inside the stack that have defensive value as well. When you only have city attack your units will die against counter attacks.

Yes, basic strategy that. I might also point out that Bts AI is a lot smarter than vanilla and will not fall for some of the old tricks, and will pound a big stack with siege units from a defensive position, for example. Nevertheless, being aggressive and attacking is still a huge advantage - you choose the time and the place, and can spread your attackers out (reducing collateral) whereas defenders must all huddle together in one place. Another big plus for an aggressive stance.

9/18/2007 12:09 PM


Like the hair cut?

Like the hair cut?

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Well the Korean UU will be useful, but no need to rush for it and start a war. It depends on circumstances, surely?

I think it would be a good strategy to try and start an early war just after the invention of construction. The AI doesn't seem to appreciate artillery units like humans do. Seems like a decent strategy to me. But of course we have to see if we have a decent start.

9/18/2007 12:37 PM


Wrong

Wrong

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Finally, I'd like to say that, although Korea seems a popular choice, I'd like folks to consider Spain and Carthaginia and maybe express their thoughts. I have also been pleasantly surprised with Ethiopia.
Um, why don't you give some argumentation for consideration? Spain gets a nice bonus or two, but if it's a later-era start, what good does an early UU do (for Carthage)?

No hard and fast rules here. I often attack without siege units at all. However, I would say 40% siege, 10% defense, 50% attack but that's just my opinion.
That's all there always is, opinions; that's all I'm interested in, opinions. Just my way to supplant experience with a bit of research.

I've been wondering about spies. I usually keep one in every city; haven't had any nastiness happen since I started doing that.
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