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| An eye for an eye. If you commit murder, you should be executed. Period. | | 6 | | I support it in some cases of 1st degree murder when there's extra violent/malicious extenuating circumstances. | | 8 | | I don't support it. Killing someone because they killed someone makes no sense. | | 5 | | | 5 |
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Radical Centrist
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LUNATIC ATHEIST!!11!!!
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| -Sorry, I've been away for a while due to sickness.
And the U.S. is _single-handedly_ responsible for what all those folks did. Soviet Union had _NUUTHIN!_ ta do with it  Nuthin.
-Wow, it's almost as if you didn't read what I replied to.
Oh yeah . . . I had forgotten how the U.S. had hampered democracy in France, Italy, West Germany, the Low Countries, and NORWAY!
-And the propaganda machine just keeps going...
Ahhh.. more anti-U.S. babble.
-I find the defense mechanism of calling any negative comment towards the USA "anti-USA babble" to be a great diservice to your country.
Most nations do nothing when they see injustice and see the potential for involving their military and probably their own soldier's deaths.
-Seriously, read a history book.
Sitting on their PCs in places like Norway from the comfort of their homes complaining about the US and our Imperialistic ways.
-Ohhh, hipocracy...
For all the babble, if in 10 years, there is a new aggressor in that part of the world and Norway is attacked, you KNOW the U.S. will come to their aid, no matter how many other nations do or don't. If the opposite were true, people like Roadkill and others might be smirking at how the mighty have fallen and do nothing and perceive it as karma or justice or whatever. You can say 'no' but I believe that would likely happen if the U.S. was in trouble and called for help.
-Cute.
To Roadkill: You got the reaction you wanted...happy now?
-I did not solicit a reaction of any kind, I was merely refuting your "real good" comment. The fact that we have a lot of American Reactionaries on this board is not my problem.
What does that have to do with the Death Penalty, for Heaven's sake?
-Noone knows, but isn't it fun?
Attempting to shift attention back on topic, I saw on TV this morning that there is a documentary series coming out soon on the National Geographic Channel, if I caught that right (I rarely watch TV other than the news, so I might be wrong) talking about how people are going into prison as criminals, and coming out as hardened criminals with all types of criminal contacts, and coming out far worse than they went in. Seems related to some of this earlier debate.
-Yes, but the US does REAL good...  I would so like to have a definition of REAL good.
I've always heard that all American prisons really accomplish is to make criminals professionals. Moreover, I have the impression that the prison population is relative large in the U.S.. And another factoid I've heard is that something like 45% of all those incarcerated in the U.S. are in for a drug offense.
-Those are all correct(Though the first one is somewhat subjective, I wouldn't call it a "fact."), the only error is that it's more like 51%.
I'm a social scientist, but I don't really know much about crime and punishment.
-All you have to know is that the way we do things right now is wrong. In the US and in Europe(And most certainly in most of the Middle East and Asia). If fear was truly a deterrant we would all live in oppressive regimes. |
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955) "The belief in a supernatural source of evil is not necessary; men alone are quite capable of every wickedness."
-- Joseph Conrad (1857-1924) With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
--Steven Weinberg(1933- )
       
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Elite Pathogen
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| All you have to know is that the way we do things right now is wrong. That to me sounds rather absolutist to me. I'd agree that we don't do everything right but to say "wrong" is kind of black and white. I think that is also not all we need to know. We need to know exactly what we are doing wrong and what we are doing right. To paint it all with a broad brush is simplistic and will never solve anything. Once you have shown us what we have done wrong, it seems to me that you've got to show us how to do it right and give a good argument of why it is better and won't actually make things worse. To me, eliminating prisons would be a much worse system than we have now. The alternatives such as halfway houses would give criminals the same opportunity to expand their criminal network only now they are on the streets at the same time. Parole is just not a big enough deterrent in some cases and some people need to be off the streets. I ask again, what is your alternative? If fear was truly a deterrant we would all live in oppressive regimes. I don't understand that statement... that is I don't understand the point. |
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-A government that is powerful enough to do anything for us is powerful enough to do anything to us. -Fred Thompson
-There are two races of people, the decent and the indecent. - Victor Frankel
-They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. - Benjamin Franklin
Consequences
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LUNATIC ATHEIST!!11!!!
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| That to me sounds rather absolutist to me.
-Maybe I should have worded myself better. The first step in fixing a problem is noticing that there is one.
I ask again, what is your alternative?
-I have already posted an alternative earlier, but let me add to it(And re-iterate some of it): I would not abolish holding facilities, they would still be similar to prisons in that way. Instead, the terms of being sent to prison would be increased(You don't get sent to jail for for stealing a bike or possessing/distributing drugs(Of course, this is relative).), many drugs would be legalised and regulated, as would prostitution. This would not simply be to control or contain, but to also give people more security(I'll explain this point further if you wish me to). Violent and non-violent criminals would be kept away from each other and reform would be emphasised through education, new experiences, etc. Instead of simply containing criminals, they would work(This is already in use in the USA and many European nations), in part to support their expenditure and also to gain practical experience. Home detention would also be put to use(Widely used in Sweden, basically a lo-jack is placed on the person's foot and he/she is to be confined to the home when not at work).
-A host of other solutions would also be put into practice, I just don't have time to write them all down now. |
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955) "The belief in a supernatural source of evil is not necessary; men alone are quite capable of every wickedness."
-- Joseph Conrad (1857-1924) With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
--Steven Weinberg(1933- )
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Elite Pathogen
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LUNATIC ATHEIST!!11!!!
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| | -Missed this one. I don't understand that statement... that is I don't understand the point. -I was trying to make the point that the death penalty does not act as a deterrant. See, when you actually write what you're thinking, we can come to some agreement.
-Write... what I think? Blasphemy! |
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955) "The belief in a supernatural source of evil is not necessary; men alone are quite capable of every wickedness."
-- Joseph Conrad (1857-1924) With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
--Steven Weinberg(1933- )
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Elite Pathogen
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