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4/5/2008 7:28 AM |
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Make my day
Last Seen: Today @ 7:00 AM
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1. The Viking Option This plan aims to turn the recent vassalisation of Japan and the Vikings against Alpha as much as possible. If my understanding of capitulation is correct, then Alpha has made a decision that cannot be reversed. Japan will be a little protectorate for the rest of the game. Alpha cannot expand into their territory (except through culture) and will never be able to utilise those Japanese cities. In fact this vassal is causing additional maintenance costs for Alpha. The Japanese are no threat to us militarily, and are highly unlikely to make any significant technological progress that they can trade to their master. To flip Japanese cities, Alpha will have to spend a fortune in EP's which they need against us. I therefore suggest we leave Japan alone. It is doing a fine job for us. 
The Vikings became a voluntary vassal and therefore theoretically could "pull out" of the deal allowing Alpha to crush them and gain 4 cities. I suggest we destroy Haithabu and Nidaros. This will make the Vikings another useless appendage, taking up valuable space and contributing little. I have no idea whether it will convince them to cling to Alpha (as I hope) or not. Even if they reject their master, they will be a pathetic two-city state. I don't believe the Alphans will be expecting this, so I doubt they have, or will, reinforce these cities. Certainly their priority will be to protect their own coastal cities first. IIRC Haithabu is also the Taoist Holy City and destroying that now precludes all possibility of Alpha ever getting its thieving hands on it. This suggestion, perhaps, goes against the logic that we should strike at the cities of our main rival. Firstly, that is what they will expect. Secondly, I think we need infantry to be truly effective against them. Thirdly, it will increase our war weariness. Attacking Ragnar will, I believe, have less of an effect as we have hardly built up any WW with him at all (it was usually his ships in our waters). If the cities are defended with outmoded troops we should win easily and pick up some promotions into the bargain. This would not be viewed as a suicide mission. We need to hurry though, before the Vikings discover rifling. If it turns out these cities are heavily defended then we ditch the plan and divert the troops either to an Alphan target, or stack 'em in treasure Island for future upgrading. In an ideal world, attacking Haithabu and Nidaros would be a diversion with the real attack against Alpha coming in from the opposite end of the continent, possibly against one of the Alphan-occupied Japanese cities with less cultural defense. However, I doubt we have the troop numbers. 2. Kerrrrching. The Pirate Option. Now that we are at war with everyone and we have pretty much mastery of the seas we should attach a privateer to each blockading unit. Protected by frigates and Ships of the Line they'll be invulnerable. This will extend their useful life way beyond the normal and we can make an income from them for years (possibly until The End) Build them now before they become obsolete. Eventually they'll be protected by Battleships and still be pulling in the cash!! Forget what I said about operating them in stacks - things have changed.
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Mood: surface ripple?
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4/5/2008 9:07 AM |
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Impeached by a patch
Last Seen: 2 days ago @ 10:14 AM
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I agree that we probably should let Japan be. We can consider ourselves successful in having saved Japan. I disagree concerning Vikingland though.
-Alpha won't get Rifling any sooner than the Vikings, and as long as they don't have that, they won't have cavalry, only cuirassiers at most. In fact, I would guess Alpha counts on the Vikings to research Rifling, and intends to trade for it. In which case they might be disappointed, as the AI has a propensity to hold on to valuable techs for a while, even when the other party is a close friend or even the master of a vassal relationship.
-As those Viking cities have quite hefty defence bonuses, we would have to spend two turns before attacking the city. One to land, another to bombard. In that time, the Alphans could well get their mobile interceptor army (big stack of kniggets, soon maybe cuirassiers, in Princep) in place to intervene.
-It is by no means guaranteed that the Vikings will remain vassals of Alpha. Voluntary vassalages are often discontinued when they expire, at least in my experience of dealing with the AI.
-What do you mean that we won't have war weariness if we attack the Vikings? It will only go away when we make peace, which won't happen as long as Alpha is the master of Vikingland; and if the Vikings stop being Alphan vassals, we have attacked them and worsened relations all in vain. The only way to get rid of that war weariness while at war with the Vikings is to destroy them completely, which I doubt we want to commit ourselves to - it throws away our advantage of being able to pack up and sail away from a theatre of war if things start looking unfavourable.
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On the other hand, Alphan Japan is quite far away from their knightly interceptor stack. What's more, it's still culturally dominated by Japan, so we will be able to put the war weariness on Alpha by, say, paying Kyoto/Rubicon another visit. I suggest that our next target will be Rubicon, which we will burn to the ground. Nebula City would be the 2nd target. I doubt we want to go for Cowtown; they don't seen fond of golden ages anyway, so the Mausoleum is kind of void. Cowtown is inland, which means we won't be able to quickly retreat to the sea if we have to.
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4/5/2008 9:43 AM |
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Make my day
Last Seen: Today @ 7:00 AM
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As those Viking cities have quite hefty defence bonuses, we would have to spend two turns before attacking the city. One to land, another to bombard. In that time, the Alphans could well get their mobile interceptor army (big stack of kniggets, soon maybe cuirassiers, in Princep) in place to intervene. But suppose we made it look as though this were a diversionary attack? How much would they commit to protecting their vassal. A vassal who, as you say -
is by no means guaranteed that the Vikings will remain vassals of Alpha. Voluntary vassalages are often discontinued when they expire, at least in my experience of dealing with the AI. Anyway, against an outmoded foe I am a great believer in amphibious assault. OK so the modifiers are horrible. But if it works and takes one turn less I do it. Cannon from galleons still cause collateral damage. Just wait until I'm Dictator -What do you mean that we won't have war weariness if we attack the Vikings? I didn't say that, though perhaps I could have put it more clearly. War weariness will accumulate vs the Vikings but it is far less of a factor because our base WW with them must be close to zero which is not the case with Alpha. Thus increasing it (by attacking their towns) will have less of an effect on our overall WW than attacking Alpha in their homeland if the Vikings stop being Alphan vassals, we have attacked them and worsened relations all in vain. Frankly I don't give a bugger what our future relations with the Vikings are like. It seems pretty irrelevant to me. As soon as they renounce their vassalage (as you seem to think will happen) Alpha will march in and take them. That is precisely what I am trying to avoid or at least, if it does happen, I want the spoils of war to be meagre.
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On the other hand, Alphan Japan is quite far away from their knightly interceptor stack. What's more, it's still culturally dominated by Japan, so we will be able to put the war weariness on Alpha by, say, paying Kyoto/Rubicon another visit. I suggest that our next target will be Rubicon, which we will burn to the ground. Nebula City would be the 2nd target. I doubt we want to go for Cowtown; they don't seen fond of golden ages anyway, so the Mausoleum is kind of void. Cowtown is inland, which means we won't be able to quickly retreat to the sea if we have to. You say that Japan is a long way from their interceptor stack. This can change in two turns. However, I do agree with you on your points above. Those are good targets. I was merely proposing a slightly more, um, subtle plan with longer-term consquences. If you were in their shoes, where would you expect us to attack? That's where we don't go.
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Mood: surface ripple?
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4/5/2008 10:57 AM |
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Impeached by a patch
Last Seen: 2 days ago @ 10:14 AM
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Where would I expect Omega to attack if I were Alpha. I would of course think, Omega wants to strike where they are the least expected, so where I expect them the least, I should probably expect them the most. But then Alpha would realize that Omega thinks this, and change again accordingly, and so it goes on, ad infinitum.
So you want to destroy Vikingland so that Alpha won't be able to benefit from conquering it later? Well, if we destroy 2 out of 4 Viking cities, Alpha will only gain half the benefit, but will also be able to conquer it at half the effort. Less than half, probably, as they'll both have half the industrial output and a lower overall tech level.
Why not, rather, wait until Alpha actually decides (as you believe) to annex Vikingland? They have virtually no trebuchets at the time; we would be able to spot an invasion buildup and intervene to save the Vikings - or make Alpha pay dearly. Why waste our own troops on horrendously costly amphibious assaults to destroy cities when we can make Alpha use their troops to that purpose, then strike and burn the city they just took?
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4/5/2008 11:53 AM |
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Impeached by a patch
Last Seen: 2 days ago @ 10:14 AM
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I just checked the save. The Vikings are getting rifling in 4. There's no way we could strike before that.
Still, Artypolis is wonderfully exposed, and with a forest adjacent to it. The workers are building a lumbermill there, so they have no intention of chopping it. Which is incredibly stupid by them and very good for us. Did I mention that Alpha has very little siege weapons? Yeah, we can park a stack there, bombard the walls of Artypolis to dust, and strike. Meanwhile, they will have to suffer horrible losses if they are to evict us out of a forest square, and they have no effective way to deal collateral damage.
Speaking of coastal cities, our blockading ships should take the chance to do some bombardment. They can do it at no cost to them, so why not? We have three active blockades, and more to come, so they have no way of knowing which one (if any) will be followed by a raid.
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4/5/2008 2:39 PM |
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Wrong
Last Seen: 12/16/2009 11:01 PM
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4/5/2008 2:43 PM |
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Make my day
Last Seen: Today @ 7:00 AM
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But then Alpha would realize that Omega thinks this, and change again accordingly, and so it goes on, ad infinitum. Well, true. It gets very confused after a few iterations and you probably end up at the beginning. Or not. Maybe. I just checked the save. The Vikings are getting rifling in 4. There's no way we could strike before that.
Ah. I thought (mistakenly) that it was 19 turns or so until they got rifling. They have somehow increased their research. This does not mean that they will suddenly have loads of rifles however. It does mean that the plan is dead if they reinforce with modern troops though. Oh poo. Still, Artypolis is wonderfully exposed, and with a forest adjacent to it. The workers are building a lumbermill there, so they have no intention of chopping it. Which is incredibly stupid by them and very good for us.
I must admit that Artypolis would have been a target of mine as well. I simply can't believe they are leaving it almost defenseless. They are not THAT stupid surely? It would be a great place to destroy, yet I have maintained a watch on that particular city for many turns and it has always been under-defended. Why? I don't know. Perhaps because of its position? It is certainly difficult to attack with any surprise. Is it a trap?
Why waste our own troops on horrendously costly amphibious assaults to destroy cities when we can make Alpha use their troops to that purpose, then strike and burn the city they just took? Well the idea is that they won't have any cities to take in the first place. They would have to build them from scratch - an even easier target. Whatever. It was only an idea, and not one I am fanatic about. If the Viking defense is strong then it's not worth it anyway. I still think the privateer thing is worth doing though.
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Mood: surface ripple?
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4/5/2008 3:47 PM |
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Impeached by a patch
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4/5/2008 9:42 PM |
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WE WILL DESTROY YOU
Last Seen: 3/11/2010 10:53 AM
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4/6/2008 12:48 AM |
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Junkyard Dawg - Any questions?!
      
Last Seen: 7/1/2009 6:27 PM
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