More Than A Memory...

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More Than A Memory...

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Rishbhav

5/1/2008 5:08 PM

Kaboom!

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I agree with Scipio, I don't want to detract from the remembrance part of the thread, so I'll make this short. If the object of terrorism is as you say to get global airtime and shift public opinion, does violence have to be involved at all? Take Gandhi for example. His genius was in his grasp on public opinion and how to shift it, yet whenever deaths happened they were usually the fault of the British. The reason I point that out is to ask you Scipio whether it is the tactics of this kind of pr-terrorism that you object to, or merely the "payload" or the message being purveyed by such tactics. I do agree with BO that in cases of violent terrorism it can never really be supported, but what's your view. Would you support a violent terrorist organization spreading liberal democratic values?
-- "If there is a God, Cardinal Richelieu will have much to answer for. If not, he has done very well" - Pope Urban VIII on Cardinal Richelieu Voice from the Middle - my blog

Black Owl

5/1/2008 5:20 PM

First Lieutenant

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Ummm.....I created another thread to debate this point. See "Is Violence....."
-- "The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were."---JFK

Nuclearcow

7/5/2008 3:10 AM

Udderly ridiculous

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Thought this was worth sharing. BBC article on "Evolution of a Conspiracy Theory."
-- "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow-lines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain "Don't ask yourself what the world needs, ask yourself what makes you come alive and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." -Harold Thurman Whitman

Scipio Africanus

7/6/2008 12:47 AM

Grognard fantôme

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Rishbhav (5/1/2008) . . . Would you support a violent terrorist organization spreading liberal democratic values? In short, and perhaps with a couple caveats here and there, yes. Primarily I disagree with Islamofascists because they are fascists, and also because they are not religion-state separatists "secularists." Not because they blow up civilians. Blowing up civilians is clearly a perfectly legitimate way to win if one is seeking to win for the right reasons. Blowing up civilians for the wrong reasons is a nice bonus demerit that "Democro-fascists" like myself can deploy in efforts to undermine Islamofascist efforts, but it is not the primary reason to decimate their arses, and erase all record of their existence from human memory. BTW, what ever happened to Neutron Bombs? You'd think those things would get more air time these days wouldn't you?
-- "'The front' is wherever you stop running away. Get used to it. This is what modern warfare looks like." K T Cat

Scipio Africanus

7/6/2008 1:04 AM

Grognard fantôme

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Nuclearcow (7/5/2008) Thought this was worth sharing. BBC article on "Evolution of a Conspiracy Theory." yawn In this case, what is the clean smooth surface we'd get from Occam's Razor?
-- "'The front' is wherever you stop running away. Get used to it. This is what modern warfare looks like." K T Cat

Locus Coeruleus

7/6/2008 5:32 PM

Radical Centrist

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Blowing up civilians is clearly a perfectly legitimate way to win if one is seeking to win for the right reasons. QFE.
-- Reaching out now and I touch your face, Please believe I'm only traveling. Like seeking wonder from a foreign place, It matters not from where I'm coming. -Ween, "Back to Basom".

Scipio Africanus

7/6/2008 8:48 PM

Grognard fantôme

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Locus Coeruleus (7/6/2008) Blowing up civilians is clearly a perfectly legitimate way to win if one is seeking to win for the right reasons. QFE. Are you tellin' me that the Allied strategic bombing programs that devastated civilian populations in Europe and Asia were wrong?
-- "'The front' is wherever you stop running away. Get used to it. This is what modern warfare looks like." K T Cat

Locus Coeruleus

7/7/2008 12:46 AM

Radical Centrist

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No sir. I am not concerned with what the Allied forces did in WW2. I am looking forwards, not backwards.
-- Reaching out now and I touch your face, Please believe I'm only traveling. Like seeking wonder from a foreign place, It matters not from where I'm coming. -Ween, "Back to Basom". Edited: 7/7/2008 12:48 AM by Locus Coeruleus

Nuclearcow

7/7/2008 2:14 AM

Udderly ridiculous

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You sound like a politician, LC!
-- "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow-lines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain "Don't ask yourself what the world needs, ask yourself what makes you come alive and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." -Harold Thurman Whitman

Locus Coeruleus

7/7/2008 1:11 PM

Radical Centrist

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What, NC? The past cannot be changed. What's done is done. Just because a despicable practice has worked in the past does not mean it should be employed in the future. Maybe back then the situation warranted bombing civilians, just as AQ felt the only way they could get our attention was to bomb civilians. Note, I am not equating the actions of AQ and the allied forces in WW2, I know that there is a difference in the righteousness of cause, but I still feel that in general, going forward, bombing civilians is a deplorable practice and one that we should definitely avoid, no matter that we are "spreading freedom".
-- Reaching out now and I touch your face, Please believe I'm only traveling. Like seeking wonder from a foreign place, It matters not from where I'm coming. -Ween, "Back to Basom".