Is Violence Neccesary?
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Is Violence Neccesary?Expand / Collapse
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5/1/2008 5:18 PM


First Lieutenant

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There!!!!  Now we can debate this issue in full measure!
5/1/2008 11:59 PM


Elite Pathogen

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It's a sad fact of life that violence is [most] often the only way to combat violence. 
5/2/2008 12:19 AM


Elite Pathogen

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Ah, you didn't leave a link to what you were refering to so I will.  For your reference, go to this thread to know what we're talking about, if you don't already.  I've not been around enough to have read the whole thing, so I'll start with Rish's last post:

If the object of terrorism is as you say to get global airtime and shift public opinion, does violence have to be involved at all? Take Gandhi for example. His genius was in his grasp on public opinion and how to shift it, yet whenever deaths happened they were usually the fault of the British.

The reason I point that out is to ask you Scipio whether it is the tactics of this kind of pr-terrorism that you object to, or merely the "payload" or the message being purveyed by such tactics. I do agree with BO that in cases of violent terrorism it can never really be supported, but what's your view. Would you support a violent terrorist organization spreading liberal democratic values?

You make a good point Rish.  Why does violence have to be used?  Is it because if there are a thousand Ghandis, no one will really listen but a thousand suicide bombs cannot be ignored?  Is it because in that region, Ghandi would be killed immediately?  Perhaps it's because their cause is not something which would be simpathised with.  The end goal of Radical Islamists seems to be one of oppression in the end while Ghandi's was one of eliminating oppression.  Would the West even bat an eye at some muslim leader who was going on a hunger strike because he wanted the world to capitulate to the ideal Islamic society? 
5/2/2008 9:24 AM


First Lieutenant

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Thanks for the correction on the link.

I agree with both of your posts here.  Firstly, in modern terms, it is extremely sad.  When you can set up a small satelite dish in a  mountaious region of Pakistan and get your message out, or use the technology of video, or cell phone, (How do they get a signal there?), the fact that most communication is done in seconds or days now, not months and years, it is extremely sad that these techs are not employed for more useful purposes.  An education can be had in any part of the world it would seem, as long as you can get line of sight to a satelite and the relatively cheap gear to communicate.

My point here, is instead of seeing more and more violence bred out of ignorance.  Shouldn't we be seeing less and less because of said ignorance?  How long does the Human population of this planet tolerate the rule of fear over education?

5/2/2008 4:24 PM
lame duck

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as long as it is necessary

I should be much for open Warr, O Peers,

As not behind in hate;......

........

Whenhe who most excels in fact of Arms,

In what he counsels and in what excels

Mistrustful, grounds his courage on dispare

And utter dissolution, as the scope

Of all his aim, after some dire revenge.

First, what Revenge? the Towrs of Heav'n are fill'd

With Armed watch, that render all access

Impregnable; oft on the bordering Deep

Encamp thir Legions, or with obscure wing

Scout farr and wide into the Realm of night,

Scorning surprize. Or could we break our way

By force, and at our heels all Hell should rise

With blackest Insurrection, to confound

Heav'ns purest Light, yet our great Enemie

All incorruptible would on his Throne

Sit unpolluted, and th' Ethereal mould

Incapable of stain would soon expel

Her mischeif, and purge off the baser fire

Victorious.   ......

Belial speaking at the confrence where Fallen Angels deside to terrorize the human kind (John Milton, Paradize Lost)

This shows that terorism is nto a function of violence, but rather of enequality.

5/6/2008 9:19 PM
lame duck

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That is why high oil prices are good for America. Viva Bush!

By the way, the gasoline tax cut being proposed by Populists is a reverse poison pill

Cheaper gas price=more gasoline consumption=faster transfer of wealth to Arab hands=poorer america faster=less life jackets for soldiers=more money available for IED's

On the other hand this tax stifels consumption, which moderates consumption, which lowers transfer of wealth, which lets new generations of arabs to grow up wealthy, which means they will moderate in the long run & not blow up their newfound wealth on IED's w/in this generation.

Ok maybe it is a direct poison pill, but reverse poison pill sounds way cooler.

5/6/2008 9:53 PM
lame duck

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Also drilling in the Alaska & promoting Solar & Ethanol (just in case the scam thing is not true) is much better way to end violence in Iraq than any of the other proposals I have seen. So yes, McCain will end it, whereas Obama/Clinton will only propogate it.
5/6/2008 10:25 PM


First Lieutenant

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SEEE!!! I told you.  Every once and awhile.....Pure Genius!
5/7/2008 12:55 AM


Elite Pathogen

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Oh the ethanol thing is most definately a scam... but I get your point.