Is Violence Neccesary?
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Is Violence Neccesary?Expand / Collapse
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5/7/2008 8:43 AM


First Lieutenant

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Prairie Switch Grass is a more dependable and resilient crop.  Offering twice the potential BTU per acre than corn.  But that would displace growing room for corn, at not much savings either to the Environment or at the pump.  Since creating ethanol in the first place requires the burning of fossil fuels, and Methane.  I saw yesterday that Corn Futures are sky rocketing because of heavy soaking rains, (heavy equipment can't work the fields), and the demand is up from Ethanol.  We'll end up paying more for everything besides fuel if corn is used as a base crop for ethanol.  Very good for farmer's, bad for consumers.

Fuel cells still seem to be the best alternative to oil.  Hydrogen will sooner or later be the fuel of choice as it addresses all the issues surrounding fuel.  Clean, plentiful, relatively cheap, doesn't pressure or displace feed crops, doesn't make anybody rich.............okay, so it'll never be allowed as a primary fuel source.

5/7/2008 8:59 AM
lame duck

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u got that right
5/7/2008 12:53 PM


Elite Pathogen

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There was also a study done which showed that the clearing of land to create crops released more C02 than it saved.  It would take something like 30 years for it to start having the desired effect.  On the food front, apparently the price of fuel is driving up food prices more than the biofuel issue but the point is that biofuel 1) isn't efficient to make and 2) it's not helping the environment, which was the whole point behind promoting it.  The thing is, the farm lobby isn't going to let it go.  Republicans and democrats alike have voters in "farming" states who they are beholden to and that is a bigger issue than any environmental issue.  BTW Owl, are there many small farmers anymore?  Is farm aid just helping big corporations?

Hydrogen, unfortunately, uses more energy to produce than it actually produces.  When the return is better than the cost, we will see it take over.  Until then, it's not something we can count on.

Currently, I think the hybrid technology will start (and is starting) to finally take off.  I was just in L.A., one of the biggest commuting cities in the country, and the amount of Priuses I saw was noteworthy.  Very few SUV's anymore.  Getting 50 mpg is significant compared to some of the best compact cars at 35 mpg.  I think that fuel efficiency will be the major cost cutting, technological trend to be honest.  I saw a show which discussed future car technology and they had a car that could go 0-60 very quickly (sorry can't remember) and which also got some insane amount of fuel efficiency like 150 mpg.  Sure it's a prototype but eventually we'll be seeing cars which get great mileage.  How soon is the question...

Drilling in Alaska is something I am for.  Actually it should be clear that there is drilling in Alaska (it's 80% of their economy), it's ANWR drilling we're talking about.  Don't expect it to solve all of our oil consumption needs.  Estimates say it will last for anywhere between 12-30 years once tapped and I think it would add something like 5% to U.S. consumption, but don't think it will all just be sold to the U.S.  It'll go on the world market just like all the oil in the world does.  Keep in mind that we only get something like 10% from the middle east.  Our (the U.S.'s) biggest supplier of oil is actually Canada (20%).  I'm in favor of ANWR drilling for several reasons but solving our dependence on foreign oil is not one of them. 

The single most efficient, clean, safe use of energy today is nuclear energy.  The amount of fuel it takes to power a city can fit in your hand, there is zero polution and storing techniques are extremely safe.  It's a sad fact that we aren't allowed to build more nuclear power plants in this country.  It would take care of our energy needs while new technology is being researched.  It could end our dependence on foriegn oil, significantly drop carbon emmissions and "save our planet."  For some reason it's a big no no.

5/7/2008 1:33 PM


die with honor

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Ok people the energy debate is here.

Now, back to violence.

My opinion is that as long as people continue to remain in the ignorant dark ages any and all "wizardry" will need to be killed as unholy.

We can never be a one planet community as long as religious/political for profit dogma rules any significant portion of the family of man.

In addition the political/religious faction will hold on to their cash cow for as long as they are able to by any and every means in their power ... violence ... lies ... tradition ... nationalism ... whatever keeps them in power ... the sheepole do not matter they are just a tool to be used. This is why I just can't understand why otherwise intelligent people defend these dogma spewing hate mongers?

5/7/2008 6:36 PM
lame duck

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It is the effect on oil prices & their consiquences on middle east finances I was refering to.
5/7/2008 7:54 PM


Elite Pathogen

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I know, I'm disputing the effect on oil prices that ethanol would have. 
5/7/2008 8:30 PM
lame duck

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Oh ok.
5/8/2008 12:11 AM


First Lieutenant

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I'm not disputing any of this dialogue.  Infact I would nuture contention. 

Firstly, Jerm, No.  Like all things in the US, it is the biggest mouths that get fed,(federal).  Small Mom and Pop farms will fail because of "COOP's".  Thus driving prices higher.  Driving Mom and Pop to give in to COOP's.  And I agree Hydrogen in the present tense is not very viable.  But could be without "Oil Lobbyists" blocking research developments.

TOSK.  What can I say beyond your comments.  Except your words are like iron in that they hold the truth.

5/8/2008 12:53 AM


Elite Pathogen

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That's been my impression as well.  So, in the guise of helping the "little guy" we're actually handing checks to multi-million corporations.  It's gotta make you sick.  It does me...

Oh yeah violence... I don't think there's much else to say .