How Healthy is John McCain?
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How Healthy is John McCain?Expand / Collapse
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5/22/2008 12:58 PM


Elite Pathogen

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JFK was a liberal and Ronald Reagan was a conservative yet they weren't much different other than the time in which they governed.  What's liberal today is conservative tomorrow.  I think it's good to have an open mind about things generally speaking and knowing that sometimes you have to change things to make them better is a liberal value.  Leftism does not mean change for the better, rather it is a political ideology with core values attached, such as an equal distribution of wealth and less private property.  Essentially, take from the rich to give to the poor.  You may think this is a good thing (I don't) but that's not the point.  Leftism is kind of set in stone while liberalism is okay with change.  Currently, liberalism is "changint" to the left end of the spectrum.  John McCain is a liberal because he is willing to listen to/compromise with the leftists.  Hillary and Obama are just plain leftists, though obviously there are degrees.

Government mandated health care is a liberal take on a leftist aim. 

Raising sales tax to fix roads, if other things aren't considered, is leftism.  Leftism would simply state that raising taxes is the solution while there may in fact be a better one which doesn't involve taking more of the people's money.  Maybe it is necessary but maybe not.

Gay marriage tends to be supported by leftists but I'm not so sure it's technically in that camp.  Definately liberal though.

Today Liberalism is associated with the left but it doesn't have to be.  I think in my description of McCain, I was probably not thinking it through this carefully though and I just meant, he's not hugely conservative.

5/22/2008 7:16 PM


Radical Centrist

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Thanks, J.

jerm (5/22/2008)
JFK was a liberal and Ronald Reagan was a conservative yet they weren't much different other than the time in which they governed.

Very interesting that you'd mention JFK, because, as you know, his most famous soundbite:

"And so, my fellow americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man."

Is anything BUT what we would think of as "liberal" by today's sense of the word.

he also has a few other quotes that one might mistake for being "conservative values" in todays climate:

We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.

"A nation which has forgotten the quality of courage which in the past has been brought to public life is not as likely to insist upon or regard that quality in its chosen leaders today - and in fact we have forgotten."

"The ancient Greek definition of happiness was the full use of your powers along lines of excellence."

"There are risks and costs to a program of action. But they are far less than the long-range risks and costs of comfortable inaction."

"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all."

The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were.

"The Chinese use two brush strokes to write the word 'crisis.' One brush stroke stands for danger; the other for opportunity. In a crisis, be aware of the danger - but recognize the opportunity."

"Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other."

"We cannot expect that all nations will adopt like systems, for conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth."

"I look forward to a great future for America - a future in which our country will match its military strength with our moral restraint, its wealth with our wisdom, its power with our purpose."

"In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility - I welcome it."

"Israel was not created in order to disappear - Israel will endure and flourish. It is the child of hope and the home of the brave. It can neither be broken by adversity nor demoralized by success. It carries the shield of democracy and it honors the sword of freedom."

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

"Let us not seek the Republican answer or the Democratic answer, but the right answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future. "

"Once you say you're going to settle for second, that's what happens to you in life. "

"The cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission. "

"The tax on capital gains directly affects investment decisions, the mobility and flow of risk capital... the ease or difficulty experienced by new ventures in obtaining capital, and thereby the strength and potential for growth in the economy. "

"There is always inequality in life. Some men are killed in a war and some men are wounded and some men never leave the country. Life is unfair. "

"Those who dare to fail miserably can achieve greatly. "

"Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."

 Ok, I got sidetracked by all these quotes, I  really have not verified if all these are actually JFK quotes, so that is my caveat, but I will also say that this doesn't exactly sound like one of them "tax and spend" "free welfare for all" liberal democrats from New England, does it? It's too bad he was gunned down. . I really out to read more about this man. And I'll have to respond to the rest a bit later.

5/22/2008 7:24 PM
lame duck

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!Viva trecientos!
5/23/2008 12:34 PM


First Lieutenant

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I'm borrowing some of those for a time Locus.  Hope you don't mind.
5/23/2008 2:39 PM


Radical Centrist

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Hey, They're not mine. They may all not be JFKs, although they may indeed be, but they're definitely not mine!
5/23/2008 7:50 PM


Radical Centrist

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Thanks for breaking down liberalism vs. leftism, btw, jerm. Can you think of maybe.... say Teddy Roosevelt as a non-leftist liberal, at a time when liberalism was clearly not so rooted in the domain of the leftists?

Raising sales tax to fix roads, if other things aren't considered, is leftism.  Leftism would simply state that raising taxes is the solution while there may in fact be a better one which doesn't involve taking more of the people's money.  Maybe it is necessary but maybe not.

Ok, can you help me think of a better solution, because I am open to that?! No matter which way I slice it, someone has to pay for it. What say we get a grant of some federal monies to fund road repair, well in that case, you get tax payers who don't live in the area funding it, because it's as clear as day the federal government is in debt and would not be paying for such a project with money in the bank. On the otherhand, a local sales tax hike would foot the bill on the people who live in the area and use the roads on a daily basis. A toll road? There are no toll roads in the area, and I doubt there ever will be. A community fund raiser? Would that be any different in practice than a tax? And besides this area isn't exactly teeming with wealth, so I doubt most people would voulantarly give lump-sums of cash for such a project, though I could be wrong.

Now on the other hand, you sap 'em slowly a quarter of a cent on the dollar, that there is the beauty of a small tax hike! You won't feel it in your wallet as much, if at all, and as such you'll never know what hit ya! . You could always try and appeal to a philanthropist to fund the project, but come on, we're talking about the Mississippi Delta here, and you never want to have to beg for money, esp. when it concerns such a fundamental thing as the quality of the road surface. Surely there's got to be a way to get these roads fixed! I'm going to talk to the chamber of commerce about this, and I'm sure this is nothing new to them, but all it will take is a little innovation!!!!

5/24/2008 12:24 PM


Elite Pathogen

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Once again, I didn't say you shouldn't raise the sales tax, I thought you were giving a hypothetical example.  I suppose other possibilities would be to spend the money they already have more wisely.  Perhaps cut something which is less useful.  I suspect the underlying problem is corruption.  Not personal corruption, just corruption in the civ3 sense.  Money is being wasted.  Taxing and spending is redistributing wealth... period.  That is a leftist thought.  I tend to think that toll roads aren't a bad idea, at least for freeways.  Then again, I'm not terribly opposed to paying for roads with tax dollars either.  It helps commerce and is probably one of the few things we should pay for with tax money.  Hey, even I am not an absolutist. 

Perhaps a more accurate way to define it is with a spectrum.  There's extreme right ideology and extreme left ideology.  Extreme Left wants to maximize the redistribution of wealth and heavy government control, like communism, and Extreme Right wants no redistribution of wealth and very little government control as in Libertarianism.  Mind you, the extreme right is also associated with other non-economic factors like fascism and I'm not really going into that (apples and oranges).  I used to have much more Libertarianistic views but I've shifted a bit and realize there are some things the government has to pay for (like roads) and the money has to come from somewhere.  Still efforts should be made to minimize redistributing wealth, depending on how far to the right you are.  Any questions? 

5/25/2008 1:40 AM


die with honor

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our current presidential hopefuls answer the age old question ... "Why did the chicken cross the road?"

BARACK OBAMA:
The chicken crossed the road because it was time for a CHANGE! The chicken wanted CHANGE! The American People want CHANGE!

JOHN McCAIN:
My friends, that chicken crossed the road because he recognized the need to engage in cooperation and dialogue with all the chickens on the other side of the road.

HILLARY CLINTON:
When I was First Lady, I personally helped that little chicken to cross the road while under sniper fire. This experience makes me uniquely qualified to ensure -- right from Day One! -- that every chicken in this country gets the chance it deserves to cross the road. But then, this really isn't about me ...
5/25/2008 3:52 AM