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Impeached by a patch
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| Since I wanted to keep the Out on a Limb thread on topic, I took the initiative to answer your question in a separate thread
Black Owl (5/17/2008)
Just wondering why there is contradiction at all? And I have asked you directly. So, just to be fair, and get the air clean for further discussion.
When you say, "I refuse to denounce violent Jihad...." are you infact refusing to denounce terrorism? And if you "don't support a Jihad against the west...." then whom?
And really Konrad, yours is just one small voice in the grander scheme of things, as is mine. I don't care what you actually believe or support in that grander scheme. I just don't like the color grey. Now, the contention has been quoted, if not by me then others who are much better at digging through this stuff.
When I said that I refuse to denounce violent jihad, what I meant was the following: There are circumstances in which waging a war is not only justifiable, but a religious duty.
I did not mean to take a stance to terrorism. Jihad and terrorism are conceptually different things, in no way dependent on each other. You can do jihad without doing terrorism, and vice versa.
What I meant with the last part was that I don't support the (self-proclaimed) jihad of Al Qaida & co against "the West". I did not mean to express support for any ongoing, contemporary jihad. When it comes to contemporary jihads, I'm split on the Chechnyan and Israeli ones, and reject the rest.
But there are a few jihads in near history which I without doubt think were truly holy and just: The Afghani jihad 1980-88 and the Bosnian jihad 1992-95. The former saved an Islamic people from having state atheism imposed on it. The latter saved an Islamic people from genocide.
I hope these answers satisfy you. If not, feel free to ask on. Requests for clarifications, entirely new questions, all goes. |
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Edited: 6/3/2008 3:44 PM by Konrad von Richtmark |  |  |
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First Lieutenant
 
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| No, that will do. As far as the terrorism thing. It's all I've been asking for, and your answer is most sincerely appreciated. The reason I felt that was needed was, yes, for clarification. You know my thoughts on this I think. If we are to progress as a spieces beyond our violent ancestry, and make a better world of things, regardless of which religion, (or not), we have to start with the most insane things. Like killing Woman and Children in a market square with a Human bomb to push a religious agenda. Not saying you. I'm talking about Religious Terrorists. No, stopping terrorism for terrorism sake is not going to fix the world. Too many loonies out there. But somewhere, somehow there is a way to stop the choosing of innocents as targets in a war whose only aim is religious indoctrination. It is a reptilian response of the lowest order, atleast in my mind. I know they say their land is being defiled. Fine, I suppose I'd feel the same way if hordes of Muslims crossed the Mexican border. But that is not what is happening in the Middle East, or anywhere. It is the INTOLERANCE of religious fundamentalists. They need an ogre to stimulate the masses to follow their ideology. The west can be pointed too as the "Great Satan" because people are free to choose their own ways. That does create bad apples that can be pointed at. But Konrad, I really wish you would follow through on something you said almost a year ago. That you might move, or visit the US. You will find that the media does just a good a job of overstating the bad here as they do in the Middle East. Visit any small town USA and you'll find descent, hard working, very GOD fearing folks, or not but they still live by a code of honor and dignity. As I'm sure you would in the Arab world. It's only the news that makes it look like we have all succumbed to Satan, or our animal passions. This is very important for you to know. It is why some of us have objected very strongly to some of your posts, and even more enlightening, is the fact while some Americans here might disagree strongly, they non the less defended you. That is what we do here. Thank you for taking the time to answer with much thought and clarity. And thank you for salvaging "Out on a Limb". |
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"The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were."---JFK
Edited: 5/17/2008 11:15 PM by Black Owl | | | |
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Grognard fantôme
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Impeached by a patch
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Grognard fantôme
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Culture-Monger
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Udderly ridiculous
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| lol. Good point, Cleo. I tend to agree.
Whether they are Christian knights killing men, women and children to wipe Jerusalem clean in the Crusades, or Islamic suicide bombers detonating themselves in markets full of civilians, to any number of things of that nature that have been committed in history, I think Roadkill is right on that stuff.
It seems legit and just to those who commit them at the time, but... sheesh.  |
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"For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. "
-- John F. Kennedy
"Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny."
--Patrick Overton
"It doesn't matter where you are as much as where you are headed."
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Elite Pathogen
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Elite Pathogen
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