NOT To Black Owl (anymore)
1BC Civ Forums
1BC Civ Forums
Home      Members   FAQ   Links
Welcome Guest ( Login | Register )
      


««12345»»»

NOT To Black Owl (anymore)Expand / Collapse
Author
Message
5/19/2008 4:22 PM


Impeached by a patch

Impeached by a patch

Last Seen:
Yesterday @ 7:03 AM


Posts: 1,826
Visits: 3,491

jerm (5/18/2008)
When it comes to contemporary jihads, I'm split on the Chechnyan and Israeli ones


Really? Why are you split on the Israeli situation? Isn't Israel the side who has tried to makeconcessions only to be smacked in the face time and again?Is there anything that justifiesthe killing of innocent Israelis by Palestinians or is it just the concept that the Palestinians' plight is just?


Well, if you have any great idea on what I'm supposed to think of Israel, let's hear it. I've long wondered it myself.

Israel is a nation built on conquered soil, from which a great deal of Palestinians were evicted. It not only holds Palestine under military occupation, but colonizes it too. It collectively punishes the Palestinians for the actions of terrorists. But then, most people in Israel don't seem to want these things either, but are afraid of making concessions when the consequence has too often been opportunistic violence.
5/19/2008 6:32 PM


Day-Saver!

Day-Saver!

Last Seen:
Today @ 10:56 PM


Posts: 5,358
Visits: 27,319

Israel is a nation built on conquered soil

Conquered by who? The Israelites? The British? The Turks? The Arabs? The Persians? The Assyrians? The Babylonians? The Israelites?

5/19/2008 6:54 PM


Impeached by a patch

Impeached by a patch

Last Seen:
Yesterday @ 7:03 AM


Posts: 1,826
Visits: 3,491

Redrawing national boundaries is one thing. Forcing the original inhabitants out to make room for your own is another.
5/20/2008 2:59 AM


Elite Pathogen

Elite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite PathogenElite Pathogen

Last Seen:
Today @ 7:58 PM


Posts: 4,420
Visits: 10,971

Whoa there, who were the origional inhabitants? 
5/20/2008 4:58 AM


die with honor

die with honor

Last Seen:
Today @ 6:02 PM


Posts: 4,632
Visits: 16,430

Whoa there, who were the origional inhabitants?


What a good question ... sent me searching ... as best as I can find out it was a group of Africans that stopped off for some years then left for Australia.
5/20/2008 7:49 AM


Impeached by a patch

Impeached by a patch

Last Seen:
Yesterday @ 7:03 AM


Posts: 1,826
Visits: 3,491

jerm (5/20/2008)
Whoa there, who were the origional inhabitants?


According to your holy book, not the Israeli at least. But does it matter? What matters is the present situation. The events of 1948 aren't a historical curiosity, they have consequences that are felt by the Palestinians today.
5/20/2008 7:58 AM


Grognard fantôme

Grognard fantôme

Last Seen:
Today @ 11:08 PM


Posts: 7,349
Visits: 9,703

KvR, do you think it should be considered at all that the Palestinians kicked off their land were kicked out as a result of a counteroffensive by the Israelis that resulted from them having been declared war on by all her neighbors? Does the perpetrator of the sneak attack not matter at all?
5/20/2008 8:11 AM


Impeached by a patch

Impeached by a patch

Last Seen:
Yesterday @ 7:03 AM


Posts: 1,826
Visits: 3,491

That's what I'm talking about, collective punishment. Thank you for demonstrating my point. Did these guys also try to drive Israel into the sea?
5/20/2008 8:26 AM


Grognard fantôme

Grognard fantôme

Last Seen:
Today @ 11:08 PM


Posts: 7,349
Visits: 9,703

"Collective punishmen" by whom?

My understanding was that, at the end of the various wars in which non-Israeli territory was annexed by counteroffensive against the aggressing sovereignties (Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, with USSR-backing), Israel made every effort to allow "refugees" to repatriate OUT of the occupied areas and back behind the new boundary of their home sovereign. This proposal was flatly rejected by pretty much all the aggressing nations, and those living in the occupied areas were encouraged to stay as "refugees" instead of relocating into Syria, Lebanon, Sinai, etc. I believe the concern was that, allowing those Lebanese, Syrian, Egyptian, Jordanian, people to relocate behind the new boundary would be an admission of defeat and a de facto acceptance of the new boundary won by the Israelis in counteroffensive.

In effect, all of Israel's neighbors attacked her (repeatedly) and have repeatedly been soundly beaten back, but have refused to acknowledge defeat by allowing citizens from the areas annexed by Israel to repatriate. This seems to be the seed of the current "Palestinian crisis." I may be wrong but that was my understanding of the general silhouette of the history? Am I wrong here?

Since the surrounding "Arab" sovereigns are the ones who initially declared war, and they are also the ones who basically refused to allow their people back into their territories from the occupied areas, do they not bear some responsibility for "punishing" the "Palestinians?"

5/20/2008 8:33 AM


Impeached by a patch

Impeached by a patch

Last Seen:
Yesterday @ 7:03 AM


Posts: 1,826
Visits: 3,491

Does international law acknowledge the victor's right to displace the people of annexed land? No. It was Israel that did the expulsion, plain and simple, not the Arab states. If you are absolving Israel from what it did in 1948, you are living in denial, a kind of denial that is a major obstacle to peace in the region.