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| | lame duck
      
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Elite Pathogen
      
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| | I wonder in that empiricle evidence how happiness is defined. The thing is, when you think about it, happiness is such an abstract principal, I don't know how one would measure it. What does happiness even mean? I tend to agree that money would not be the main determiner of happiness however. It may have some effect on one's stresses in life. Is this not just a tangent to the main point about investment though? Is the purpose of investment to make one happy in the first place? The purpose of investment is to make one feel more secure, nay, be more secure. A net result of knowing that you are in fact more secure is that you will have the freedom to be happy. We are all a part of these larger "investments" in many facets of humanity. Belonging to a nation state is an investment. You'll contribute to this nation in some way in exchange for a degree of security. Wherever the state has less influence, the much more hazzardous life becomes. Wild animals, bandits and simply having to provide for yourself is a stressful existence. I do not argue that one cannot be happy in such a situation but I would say that one has more freedom to be happy with a level of security. Losing family members to disease, wild animals and even bandits does not contribute to one's happiness. While investments and therefore security may give one the freedom to find happiness, one does not necessarilly find it but the option for its pursuit is there. The other question is, is the purpose of life to find happiness? |
-- -A government that is powerful enough to do anything for us is powerful enough to do anything to us. -Fred Thompson
-There are two races of people, the decent and the indecent. - Victor Frankel
-They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. - Benjamin Franklin
Consequences
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| | lame duck
      
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Grognard fantôme
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| He may be able to relate (successfully transfer) his illusion/perception through sustained/constant interaction, which explains how families come to share similar world views & mood is contagious. Exactly! Muk have you read Sapolsky's "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers?" Are you an academic? If not, you oughtta be! ADDIT: and Jerm, you are right about "happiness" being hard to define, even within the parameters of one fairly consistent "culture," let alone across cultures. That is where multi-disciplinary folks like myself who like to check to see for corroboration between multiple different measures (psycho-physiological, health, social, psychometric, behavioral). The science of studying happiness or well-being is frankly still in its infancy: reason being, the dogma that has persisted (as I pointed out above) since the Renaissance that material wealth = happiness/well-being. Ironically, this idea has grown as religious notions of happiness in an afterlife have waned, and as ideas of happiness from being a patriotic member of a tribe has also ebbed and flowed. I find it fascinating to read about people's personal lives in the 18th and 19th century. It is remarkable to hear about what it was that made them "happy." Granted, what we have to read are the records of the exceptionals more than the averages, but . . . what I notice is that we have got more petty, self-interested, shallow, uncritical, non-reasoning, tribal, lazy, undisciplined . . . Is this not just a tangent to the main point about investment though? Is the purpose of investment to make one happy in the first place? The purpose of investment is to make one feel more secure, nay, be more secure. I would argue that it most definitely is NOT a tangent to the initial question Muk posed. This is because, another way of looking at publicly traded stocks is not as a constellation of free moving entitites ruled entirely by their individual free will, and acting rationally in their own self-interest, but instead as a system that intrinsically favors the uber-powerful, and intrinsically exploits the rest. Lets face it: the majority of us have very little real influence in what happens in the stock market. Collectively we might, but then each of us has only a very tenuous influence on the collective actions of all of us peons. In contrast, the Warren Buffets of the world have power equivalent to Ancient World Monarchs. If Buffet wants a particular thing to occur on Wall Street, he very well may have the actual agency to make it happen by virtue of strategic buying and selling. Putting it this way, the "purpose" of investing is not to serve the interests of the hundreds of millions of little guys, but to serve the interest of the few score big guys. Put in that perspective, we should not be surprised if plenty of little guys (at least half?) wind up getting more displeasure from their investing activities than pleasure. |
-- "'The front' is wherever you stop running away. Get used to it. This is what modern warfare looks like." K T Cat
Edited: 7/17/2008 9:47 AM by Scipio Africanus |  |  |
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Udderly ridiculous
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| I wasn't sure I was going to jump in on this philosophical debate, but I decided to play along too.
As far as happiness goes and material wealth... IMO, it is often the reason how wealth is acquired that often determines how happy they are afterwards. I recently watched the movie, There Will Be Blood, which is about an oil tycoon and his up and coming fortune and at the end, the guy was material-wealthy beyond belief, but miserable. I don't know if the movie was totally fiction or based on a true guy or whatnot, but the lust for wealth, success, etc, drove this man and in the end when he had it and then some, he was miserable. I think thats very much like many people in the world.
On the other hand, if someone's priorities are being a decent person, or a decent parent, or anything similar, and wealth happens through hard work, or good luck, lottery, inheritance, etc, etc, I'd make a total guess that that person will be a more happy person than the oil tycoon example above. I tend to think its the lust and desire for wealth over other things that often makes someone miserable. Maybe its just the priorities one has that often determines his happiness.
A personal example. When I visited India, I saw many in extreme poverty and some of those people smiled so much and seemed so happy. Why? I think its because wealth, while desired, wasn't amongst their most valued or desired things. Maybe it was family, or their faith or who knows... but most seemed awfully happy despite any poverty.
Interesting debate, fellas |
--
 "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow-lines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain"Don't ask yourself what the world needs, ask yourself what makes you come alive and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." -Harold Thurman Whitman |  |  |
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Elite Pathogen
      
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Radical Centrist
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| | lame duck
      
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