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Radical Centrist
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Elite Pathogen
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| But I will say this.... You say the president is not all-powerful. Certainly not. But he doesn't have to be. Certainly the Experience factor is important. Just as the Charisma and Intellect and many other factors are important too. BUT just as the President is not all-powerful, the President isn't exactly going it alone either. He has his Cabinet, his Vice President, the wisdom and experience of those in the Senate and Congress and so on and so forth. Ultimately the decision comes down to the President, who will have to draw on their experience, intellect, strength, etc. etc. etc. But I feel that the when people say that Obama is unexperienced, that they are trying to put this one character trait in a vacuum and none of the other stuff that comes with being a President matter! Which is not true. Then again, when you have someone like GWB taking the advice from all the malcontent neo-cons around him, you get some very bad things happening. I will grant that!!! However I also think that Obama is strong in character and in intellect and that he would not too soon fall into some of the same trappings that GWB has. That is my opinion on the whole experience thing. Ah okay. So your argument is that he'll have enough experienced people around him that he'll be informed enough to make a decision? No doubt he'll be informed but what happens when the State Department is arguing (with convincing arguments) in one direction and the Defense Department is arguing in a different direction and the choice lies with you? Experience helps. But yeah, it's not the only thing that's important, but it's the biggest thing that Obama clearly doesn't have. Character, integrity, intelect are also important. Judgement is probably the most important... but experience helps judgement. The thing is, McCain has all of these. He at least has a better record to show for them. This isn't a knock on Obama, just that he hasn't been around as long. Charisma is the other thing you noted as an important factor. It's important in getting elected but how important is charisma in a president? There is a place for it in trying to excite the nation for sure but it's definitely lower than experience on my list. Perhaps a rating of the candidates would be fun based upon as many "important" factors that we can think of. "Between 1 and 10 how would you rate so-and-so on the following," type of thing. So far we've got: Experience
Charisma
Intellect
Character
Integrity
Judgement
Holds similar views Feel free to add any others and perhaps we can have people start rating each of the candidates. |
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-A government that is powerful enough to do anything for us is powerful enough to do anything to us. -Fred Thompson
-There are two races of people, the decent and the indecent. - Victor Frankel
-They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. - Benjamin Franklin
Consequences
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Udderly ridiculous
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| I don't know if you'd classify this as integrity on your list, but what about 'morality?'
I've mentioned before that I hold abortion as a very key factor in my mind, though I know some of you disagree with me. To me, thats a morality issue, and to other people its probably in another category for them. I'd rather us not go to war unless its absolutely necessary and I'd view that as a morality issue as well, where I know others can justify it as self-protection or whatever other category it fits in for them, but to me its morality. Not having oral sex with an intern, not lying under oath, not taking drugs in the past, etc, etc. Those things are fairly important to me, where they might not necessarily be to others.
I might include some things McCain has done very well on, under 'honor.' (perhaps 'integrity' on your list is close though) Going back to a war-zone (voluntarily) in a war that you believe in so you don't leave your brothers behind. Declining to be released as a POW because other soldiers and sailors have been there longer than you, etc. The whole, "I'd rather lose this election than this war" thing, etc. He may be totally off-base on things like open-borders and 'free trade' stuff, etc, in my opinion, but he has a lot of honor. Or so it seems.
I'd put that on my list too. Maybe even something about the President not taking freedoms for security, following the Constitution to the letter, etc (the stuff that Ron Paul fans usually get excited about). Fiscal responsibility, etc.
and if he was a Denver Broncos fan, I'd vote for him despite any of his beliefs.  (Go Broncos!)
*EDIT* How about this for a list before ranking them?:
Experience
Charisma
Intellect
Judgment
Character/Integrity/Honor (similar, IMHO)
Holds similar moral standards
Holds similar views on many issues
Has a hotter Vice-President (just kidding on this one) |
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow-lines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain"Don't ask yourself what the world needs, ask yourself what makes you come alive and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." -Harold Thurman Whitman
Edited: 9/9/2008 3:08 PM by Nuclearcow | | | |
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Elite Pathogen
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Radical Centrist
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| | Obama - 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10 McCain - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 
Haha, just kidding, but I will get back to this later tonight. I like the direction this is going. All the cat fighting stuff is getting kind of boring. |
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Reaching out now and I touch your face,
Please believe I'm only traveling.
Like seeking wonder from a foreign place,
It matters not from where I'm coming. -Ween, "Back to Basom". | | | |
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Elite Pathogen
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Radical Centrist
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| jerm (9/9/2008)
Morality in his personal life probably falls under integrity. Morality in his views (like abortion) would go under "holds similar views" IMO. Remember it's a 1-10 scale so if he only shares half your views (including morality), he'd only get a 5. If some of those issues are more important than others, you've got room to move that number either way. Abortion for you might have 3 points worth of value whereas for someone else it would only be half a point. Combining Character, Integrity and Honour is probably a good idea though. I suppose they'd all fall under Character since integrity and honour are subcategories of Character. I think all these categories should remain slightly vague though since it's up to the person rating the points how he/she wants to define them. It's for personal clarification, not necessarilly for an argument either way, though it would be fun to see what others think. Revised list?: Experience
Charisma
Intellect
Judgment
Character (ncluding Integrity/Honor/moral life)
Holds similar views (including moral views) Is this good? Locus (or anybody for that matter), you got anything else to add? Change "Holds similar views" to "Political Views" or "Political Philosophies" and I will be happy!  |
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Reaching out now and I touch your face,
Please believe I'm only traveling.
Like seeking wonder from a foreign place,
It matters not from where I'm coming. -Ween, "Back to Basom". | | | |
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Radical Centrist
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| Well since you asked... null and void? So, Obama can say he's more experienced or close in experience to his opponent's running mate? Sorry, I'm not picking between Biden and Palin, I"m picking between McCain and Obama. Between the two, McCain has a lot more experience. And furthermore, McCain's age isn't a very big issue. If it was, he wouldn't be where he is today. Did you see his mother at the convention? Holy crap! I don't think we have to worry about McCain kicking the bucket in the next four years at least. People aren't talking about the experience right now because there's more to talk about. Palin has changed the discussion, but McCain still has more experience in his pinky than does Obama. Can't argue with the experience thing! I did hear Bill O'Reilly say that he does believe that Mr. Obama is, in fact, qualified for the position, that he may not be AS qualified as Mr. McCain, in terms of experience, but maybe that is a good thing in terms of creativity and looking at things from a different perspective. But I will take you to task on the age factor.+ True that his mother is older than dirt, and we all know that John McCain himself is older than dirt... but where is his father? He passed away almost 30 years ago. What kind of life has Senator McCain's mother lived? Did she take the kind of physical abuse that John McCain took in Vietname? Did she survive several bouts of cancer, like her son has? Does Senator McCain's father's side of the family have the same kind of longevity trait that his mother's has? My point is that it isn't so easy to extrapolate from his mother to himself in terms of the age factor, as such, the question of Sarah Palin's experience is indeed very relavent. If you think she would be able to step in and serve admirably as President, fine, but that must be a part of the equation, given McCain's age. I will also argue that look, irregardless of his age, the qualifications of the vice president must come into consideration for the simple reason that no human being is guaranteed to see the light of day tomorrow. Contrary to what you said, you are not voting for McCain or Obama, you are voting for McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden. There is a reason for that.  Whom a President selects as a running mate, I would say, very much speaks to their judgement. One look no further than George McGovern to determine that. |
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Reaching out now and I touch your face,
Please believe I'm only traveling.
Like seeking wonder from a foreign place,
It matters not from where I'm coming. -Ween, "Back to Basom".
Edited: 9/10/2008 1:46 PM by Locus Coeruleus | | | |
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Elite Pathogen
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