Iraqi Sovereignty?
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Iraqi Sovereignty?Expand / Collapse
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6/8/2008 7:25 PM


Day-Saver!

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Is it an oxymoron at this point?

At Odds Over Iraqi 'Sovereignty'

U.S. and Iraqi officials are currently locked in tense negotiations on a pact to ratify a long-term American presence in Iraq. But it's becoming increasingly clear that differences between the two sides make agreement unlikely before the July 31 deadline set by the Bush Administration.

The proposed deal is controversial both in Washington — where Democrats see it as a move to tie the hands of the next U.S. President, and are pressing for it to be subject to congressional approval — and also in Baghdad, where many Iraqi leaders fear that they're being asked to sign away their sovereignty. Negotiators for both sides emphasize that respect for Iraqi sovereignty will be the basis of any deal. But they don't appear to mean the same things by "sovereignty." Differences over the extent of control the Iraqi government would have over the deployment and activities of U.S. military forces on their territory has cast a shadow over prospects for an imminent deal. "These are negotiations between two sovereign parties," said a senior U.S. official in Baghdad, "each of which has the ability to say yes, or to say no."


Verry interesting.
6/8/2008 7:34 PM


Grognard fantôme

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I wonder how long it took for Germany, Japan, and Italy to regain full sovereignty?

Did they "ever?"

6/8/2008 11:31 PM


First Lieutenant

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9/17/2008 9:34 PM


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I don't think we need another State.  We need to force their hand to take control of themselves.  And bugger out when the security is right.  To do so earlier invalidates the lives spent already.  Cost of more lives?  Most likely.  But how many will be slain in revenge attacks and open power struggles if we pull out before Iraq can stabilize?  We created this.  We really ought to see it through.
6/9/2008 5:12 AM


Elite Pathogen

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Nah, let the buggers rot.  Who cares if there's mass genocide and Al Quaeda is emboldened.  I'm voting Obama.  Isolationism!
6/9/2008 6:31 AM


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During 9/11 and afterwards, CNN and others talked about the "shadow government" that would step in during crisis, if our government was wiped out, etc. They talked as though it was no big deal and was a failsafe for us. Congress was not advised of the existence of this shadow government. I don't remember voting for them, or even hearing who they are, do you?

I guess only wacky conspiracy theorists worry about our future sovereignty.

Jerm hijacked it 1st!
6/9/2008 7:30 AM


Impeached by a patch

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Scipio Africanus (6/8/2008)
I wonder how long it took for Germany, Japan, and Italy to regain full sovereignty?

Did they "ever?"


It is interesting that you ask this, as you like to present these countries as examples of how US liberation brings good stuff, and not "enslavement to the US Hegemony". Undermining yourself, eh

Well, as far as I know, all the US troops left in those countries are there because the governments of those countries want it. I'm sure Bush would be grateful if he could send those 45,000 troops stationed in Okinawa to Iraq.
6/9/2008 8:32 AM


Grognard fantôme

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Konrad von Richtmark (6/9/2008)
Scipio Africanus (6/8/2008)
I wonder how long it took for Germany, Japan, and Italy to regain full sovereignty?

Did they "ever?"


It is interesting that you ask this, as you like to present these countries as examples of how US liberation brings good stuff, and not "enslavement to the US Hegemony". Undermining yourself, eh

Well, as far as I know, all the US troops left in those countries are there because the governments of those countries want it. I'm sure Bush would be grateful if he could send those 45,000 troops stationed in Okinawa to Iraq.

Ah, so in other words, the answer to my question is: Yes, they DID regain full sovereignty.

So, the historical precedent is: trust the U.S., let us get the job done, and you'll all be better off in the long-run!

With respect to how long it took for them to regain full sovereignty lotsa details here sounds to me like it was pretty much total bedlam for 10 or 15 years eh? My recollection is that more Germans died AFTER the end of WWII than during the last year of the war . . . something like that.

Of the roughly 12.4 million Germans who in 1944 were living in territory that following the dismembering of Germany would become part of post-war Poland, an estimated 6 million fled or were evacuated before the advance of the Red Army. Of the remainder up to 1.1 million died, 3.6 million were expelled by the Poles, one million were designated as Poles, and 300,000 remained.
6/9/2008 1:14 PM


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The 'Red Army' in Iraq is not the Soviets seeking hegemony over the region, it's the Iranians. That is to say, if America withdraws completly (which not even Obama proposes) you can bet Iran will seek to fill the void!
6/9/2008 1:24 PM


Elite Pathogen

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(which not even Obama proposes)

He doesn't?

6/9/2008 1:33 PM