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Udderly ridiculous
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Radical Centrist
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| | I think the bumperstickers.....actually I've never seen the bumperstickers, but the phrase I have heard is "Think for yourself, question authority". Thinking for oneself, being as objective and realistic as possible, and expressing oneself in a civil, clear, and assertive way--including questioning authority--I think is what you actually mean LC. That is exactly what I mean doc.  What can I say, I was rushed this morning when I posted that. Specifically what I meant to say is "Questioning your government.... WHEN IT IS NECESSARY". Which fits with what you have so eloquently said. |
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Reaching out now and I touch your face,
Please believe I'm only traveling.
Like seeking wonder from a foreign place,
It matters not from where I'm coming. -Ween, "Back to Basom". |  |  |
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Radical Centrist
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| we'd firstly identify ourselves as Americans (or whatever other country you belong to). Actually I firstly identify myself as a human being... THEN an American. But who's counting!  Your statement about wars is very simplistic. The only way there will ever be total peace on earth is when an iron fisted totalitarian regime rules it all. I disagree. But then, I guess I have more faith in humanity than you do! Are you willing to trade freedom for peace? No, of course not. I wish GWB felt the same way!  Forget working together as a nation for common goals, I am working for all of humanity to make the world a better place, not just for this nation, but for all the peoples of the world. Why in the world are these two mutually exclusive? Well, they are not, but the latter does not require Nationalism as a motivating factor. I do not worship at the altar of Nationalism. I do not require it, it doesn't get me out of bed each day, that is what I am saying. Patriotic, yes, you betcha. But nationalistic, no, never!  The world is my playground.  I am proud to be an American first and foremost. I do not pretend that everything we have done in the world has been good (though I think our intentions were at least in the 20th Century) but I do believe this is the best damn country on the earth and if I didn't feel that way, I'd move to the one I thought that was. What the hell is wrong with that? Nothing, sir, nothing at all. But you know, good intentions pave the road to hell, you know this, right? |
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Reaching out now and I touch your face,
Please believe I'm only traveling.
Like seeking wonder from a foreign place,
It matters not from where I'm coming. -Ween, "Back to Basom".
Edited: 8/14/2008 7:22 PM by Locus Coeruleus | | | |
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Elite Pathogen
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| You often skim over what I say and react to what's on the surface Locus without addressing what I actually say. Perhaps you're being cheeky and the smilies would indicate such but I don't feel like you're getting what I'm saying. That my be my fault. Actually I firstly identify myself as a human being... THEN an American. But who's counting!  This is a given. It's like, I'm a male or I have a beard or I slept last night... well that's not always a given . Yes, working to make a better world is wonderful and I join you in this, but if you lived in a rotten country, how easy would it be to do this? Cleanse the inner vessel first, then fix the world. That's not to say you can't do both . I disagree. But then, I guess I have more faith in humanity than you do! Most liberals do. What evidence to you have that humanity is generally good? The last 7000 years? The last 500? The last 100? The last 10? No, the evidence points to the fact that humanity is generally rotten unless we are taught or forced to be "good"... and even then it doesn't always work. No, of course not. I wish GWB felt the same way!  So, what liberties have you lost during Evil Booshmeister's been in office? Still, I generally agree that the move has been towards less freedom, though this has not been exclusive to Bushy. Well, they are not, but the latter does not require Nationalism as a motivating factor. I do not worship at the altar of Nationalism. I do not require it, it doesn't get me out of bed each day, that is what I am saying. Patriotic, yes, you betcha. But nationalistic, no, never! Perhaps we are battling a war of semantics. Nationalism| 1. | national spirit or aspirations. |
| 2. | devotion and loyalty to one's own nation; patriotism. |
| 3. | excessive patriotism; chauvinism. |
| 4. | the desire for national advancement or independence. |
| 5. | the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation, viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations. |
| 6. | an idiom or trait peculiar to a nation. |
| 7. | a movement, as in the arts, based upon the folk idioms, history, aspirations, etc., of a nation. |
Patriotism is one definition of Nationalism. I am not saying that we should worship at the alter of nationalism. I am only saying that a degree of nationalism is not a bad thing and in fact can be a force for good as long as the nation one is nationalistic to is a good one. Nothing, sir, nothing at all. But you know, good intentions pave the road to hell, you know this, right? You respond to my parentheses? Nuke: I tend to agree with Biz's description of Nationalism. Patriotism to me is loving your country and being proud of its history, etc. Nationalism is preferring your nation at the expense of others. That sorta thing. Was that Biz's description? Biz?  |
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-A government that is powerful enough to do anything for us is powerful enough to do anything to us. -Fred Thompson
-There are two races of people, the decent and the indecent. - Victor Frankel
-They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. - Benjamin Franklin
Consequences
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Radical Centrist
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Elite Pathogen
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Grognard fantôme
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| According to Benedict Anderson, one fairly influential cultural anthropologist, nations are "Imagined Communities".Benedict Anderson defined a nation as "an imagined political community [that is] imagined as both inherently limited and sovereign". [1] An imagined community is different from an actual community because it is not (and cannot be) based on quotidian face-to-face interaction between its members. Instead, members hold in their minds a mental image of their affinity. As Anderson puts it, a nation " is imagined because the members of even the smallest nation will never know most of their fellow-members, meet them, or even hear of them, yet in the minds of each lives the image of their communion". [1]As someone who regards humans from a more evolutionary perspective, i.e., by placing human natura history into the context of the phylogenetic-bush of ape-lineages out of which we emerged 6 to 8 million years ago: I see considerable merit in this perspective on nationalism. It is also applicable to a lesser degree to other Emic conceptions of social identity such as ethnicity, and race. |
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"'The front' is wherever you stop running away. Get used to it. This is what modern warfare looks like." K T Cat
Edited: 8/15/2008 9:14 AM by Scipio Africanus | | | |
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Elite Pathogen
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| | Hmm, it is, I suppose an imagined community in a sense but I think more ties a nation together than just this imaginary affinity. At least in the west today, nations are also connected by some basic values and even culture. So, while I may never meet someone in New York, or Oregon, there's a good chance that we share many values in common. I share many values with you Scipio, even though I know there are many we don't. The values that we seem to agree upon are fundamentally American values. Freedom, democracy, rule of law, a nation for the people. Slight subcultural influences aside, the fact that I can move almost anywhere in this large geographical area and still feel like I'm in "America" is a testament that this is not just imagined. On the other hand, I go much less distance south and I'm in a totally different world. |
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-A government that is powerful enough to do anything for us is powerful enough to do anything to us. -Fred Thompson
-There are two races of people, the decent and the indecent. - Victor Frankel
-They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. - Benjamin Franklin
Consequences
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