'Other’ China is still alive behind the scenes
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8/31/2008 4:39 PM


Grognard fantôme

Grognard fantôme

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Nuclearcow (8/31/2008)
and if McCain said, "China spends lots of money on their infrastructure, which is something we should emulate"... would you unlease equal criticism about it?  I doubt it.

Thats something about politics amongst the people that gets old.  EVERYTHING the 'other' party does is bad, stated badly, maybe even 'evil,' etc, etc.  And likewise, most things your party (not you specifically, Scip) does, says is brilliant, perfect, so obviously better, etc.

I doubt there is much Obama would say that would have you, Jerm or Biz (sorry to pick on you all) say anything positive about.  I am not trying to criticize you in particular, Scip, but just wish people would rise about the partisan line.

Such statements are abominations of rhetoric no matter who explicates them. If McCain said such a thing I would be equally critical.

Observe: I am highly critical of McCain's unprincipled decision to pander to the female special interest group by bringing in a virtually unknown female as his running mate. A smart strategy, perhaps but a principled resort to choosing the overall best running mate? I doubt it. If she is "the best person for the job" why have we heard nothing of her till now?

Obama shirked Hillary, creating the potential for a huge number of alienated Hillary-lovers; consequently McCain's team is making the strategically smart move of putting a woman on their team in hopes of stealing away a significant chunk of Hillaries ardent supporters. Nothing in such a decision necessarily has anything to do with who is the best LEADER. I'm critical of all of them for playing smoke and mirror games that have little really to do with what is best for the United States and lots to do with what is best for political parties.  I am critical of our entire American way of life for it being like this. Why!? Why!? Why, can we not have REAL statesmen/women!?

I'll tell you why, America has grown more stupid as the bread and circuses have grown more beguiling.

I am critical of stupidity, irrespective of what party label or avatar it tries to hide behind.

I doubt there is much Obama would say that would have you, Jerm or Biz (sorry to pick on you all) say anything positive

On this point I will tend to agree with you. Obama appears to be a first-rate charlatan who will say anything if he thinks it will get him elected.

Now that McCain has shown his ability to match Obama's used-car salesman mystique with an equally as shallow but effective-on-the-masses tactic, I don't know whether to abominate both of them equally, or simply to wish that the least nefarious wins. Indeed, in a contest of nefariousness, I can't say I have a clear read of which one of them is less wiley, calculating and ruthless. Perhaps the one who can win the insipid suite of parlor games is the best candidate even if the games are stupid? I suppose for a nation of clowns, the best clown/magician is perhaps the most suiting?

But in the end, McCain has more experience, and more proven ability and sucesses in the myriad of domains in which a President needs to be competent. On that basis I remain tentatively pro-McCain. Definitely anti-Obama, but as the lesser of two evils, tenuously pro-McCain . . . for now. We'll see what new treachery the two of them dream up before November  . . .

8/31/2008 5:39 PM
Kaboom!

Kaboom!

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I agree with you Scip, it's all smoke and mirrors, from both sides. By the way, this wasn't the first time McCain has shown his devious side: anyone remember the whole gas tax fiasco in which both Hillary and McCain supported temporarily suspending the federal gas tax despite a clear consensus of economists (perhaps the only such consensus ever) that such a move would be totally boneheaded? Yet they supported it anyway, in a cheap effort to pander to the populace.
9/1/2008 1:49 PM


Elite Pathogen

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I doubt there is much Obama would say that would have you, Jerm or Biz (sorry to pick on you all) say anything positive about.  I am not trying to criticize you in particular, Scip, but just wish people would rise about the partisan line.

He looks like a nice fellow

Seriously, I will not make any bones about the fact that I'm pulling for McCain.  I've said it before and I'll probably say it again, he wasn't my first choice, or my second, or my third actually but he's who I've got to live with.  There is no perfect candidate other than jerm himself because he's the only one who shares all my views .  My goal is to get him elected so that Obama isn't elected.  I don't think there's anything that I think actually qualifies him for being president.  I could see myself voting for a democrat in cases where they were more preferable to a republican but this is not the time. 

9/1/2008 3:06 PM


Elite Pathogen

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Also, people are free to give their side as well.  If you have some examples of stupid things that McCain has said, (as Rish did) by all means, post em. 

I do have a hard time believing that China's infrastructure (as a whole) is vastly superior to ours.  I'd like to actually see some kind of data to back it up, then I may be convinced.  Perhaps in a few metropolitian areas but a country isn't just made up of metros.  What is the cost of these infrastructural improvements and are they justified by the ends?  I'm not sure we should employ the same methods of building up our infrastructure that China has done. 

9/1/2008 6:41 PM


Udderly ridiculous

Udderly ridiculous

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As far as dumb things said, did you see the clip where he mentioned the Iraq-Pakistan border? (huh?) This is the stuff where if Bush said it, the clips would be everywhere. To be fair, I think he meant Afghanistan because he talks so often about Iraq and Afghanistan, it was a slip of the tongue, but you'll no doubt find You Tube clips on that one.

Forget about accidental faux pas comments. How about championing a bill to allow all illegals immigrants to stay in America permanently? Thats pretty bad isn't it? Voting for illegals to get Social Security. What the? I think this is far worse than any slip of the tongue. He is HEAVILY a pro open-border guy and pro outsourcing, amnesty, etc. One more step towards the North American Union when he's elected.

Sorry Jerm. I gotta pick on you.
I do have a hard time believing that China's infrastructure (as a whole) is vastly superior to ours.
Did you watch the video you posted? Thats not what he said. Ports, train systems and airports are superior. It is not hard to tell who is anti-Obama or anti-Bush or anti-Clinton, etc from their political comments. When you put those words in Obama's mouth, it does sound bad, but that is not what he said. Ports, train systems and airports.

Do you think our train system is superior? Heck maybe even India has a superior train system. We are a wealthy nation that prefers automobiles... so trains are way down on our list. Is that pro-communist or pro-China for Obama to say? Airports? We have fairly nice airports, but I've been to much nicer in Europe. Our airports are nice and well done, but we don't have the best airports as we are a nation that must get tax approval to upgrade airports and politicians don't last long if they raise taxes. Ports? I am too ignorant to speak on it. But again, you can tell you're anti-Obama by putting more words in his mouth than what he said.
9/1/2008 7:05 PM


Elite Pathogen

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As far as dumb things said, did you see the clip where he mentioned the Iraq-Pakistan border? (huh?) This is the stuff where if Bush said it, the clips would be everywhere. To be fair, I think he meant Afghanistan because he talks so often about Iraq and Afghanistan, it was a slip of the tongue, but you'll no doubt find You Tube clips on that one.

I don't like these attacks on slips of the tongue.  Everybody slips up like this (I do it all the time) and unless you think they meant what they said, it's stupid to bring them up.  Besides, I've heard plenty of Obama slip ups as well but nobody seems to care.

Forget about accidental faux pas comments. How about championing a bill to allow all illegals immigrants to stay in America permanently? Thats pretty bad isn't it? Voting for illegals to get Social Security. What the? I think this is far worse than any slip of the tongue. He is HEAVILY a pro open-border guy and pro outsourcing, amnesty, etc. One more step towards the North American Union when he's elected.

You make quite a few leaps in there.  This isn't a slip but a difference of opinion.  It's one of those things which made McCain not my number one pick... though I do agree with some of those things... when they're not phrased in such a partisan way .

Did you watch the video you posted? Thats not what he said. Ports, train systems and airports are superior. It is not hard to tell who is anti-Obama or anti-Bush or anti-Clinton, etc from their comments.

Ports, train systems and airports = infrastructure.  That said, it's been a while since I've actually watched it so sorry I didn't get it perfectly.  Here's what he says:

"...think about the amount of money China has spent on infrastructure.  Their ports, their train systems, their airports are all vastly superior to us now, which means if you're a corporation, deciding to do business... you're starting to think, Bejing looks like a pretty good option."

It doesn't seem like a leap to think he was talking about infrastructure in general and then giving a few examples. 

Do you think our train system is superior? Heck maybe India has a superior train system. Airports? We have fairly nice airports, but I've been to much nicer in Europe. Our airports are nice and well done, but we don't have the best airports. Ports? I am too ignorant to speak on it. But again, you can tell you're anti-Obama by putting more words in his mouth than what he said.

India does not equal China.  Europe does not equal China.  How does he know that China's trains and airports are superior?  What does superior even mean?  They look nicer?  As for ports, I have no doubt they are top notch actually.  They ship things all over the world so I wouldn't doubt chinese ports are superior.

9/1/2008 10:39 PM


Grognard fantôme

Grognard fantôme

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At the end of the day, it does not matter how awesome their ports, airports, highways, toilet faciltiies, trolley cars, nor street lights are by comparison to the U.S. The fact is that China is a totalitarian state where the common citizen does not have a right to free speech, a right to question the government as you are so fond of doing Mr Cow, nor a right to bear arms, etc.

Irrespective of how much dirty money they have spent on infrastructure in the areas where the Olympics cameras have been rolling up footage, "doing like them" and spending dirty money on infrastructure is not something the U.S. should aspire to, and Obama should be ashamed to even consider engaging in such yellow innuendo.

9/1/2008 11:24 PM


Bismarcko' Magnifico

Bismarcko' Magnifico

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I think I'm more critical due to the fact I'm not a socialist.
9/1/2008 11:33 PM


Radical Centrist