DNC 1st amendment 'cage'
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9/8/2008 12:00 AM


Elite Pathogen

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Who do I blame for all this? The American consumer. Take away the American consumer's childish infatuation, lack of patience, lack conscience, and lack of principle, and most of this would fade away. In some ways I can fully understand why those Islamofascists hate us: we are despicable. They are not going about correcting our ways in anything like an appropriate or promising way, but I can in part agree with them that we are pathetic.

Absolutely right!  This is the primary problem in our country and in fact the West in general.  It's where I was going with the whole technology thing.  As televisions became more prominent in households, books and reading became much less so over time.  People cared more about what happened on Leave it to Beaver or Charles in Charge or Lost than national and world afairs.  If the news wanted to stay profitable, they had to give the people a reason to tune in.  They had to compete. 

I wonder if the emergence and prominence of the internet will change things for the better.  Now someone can read any article by almost any newspaper with relatively little effort.  The world is changing but will people become more informed from the internet or will the internet evolve into the mindless drivel (with a few exceptions) that is television.  I guess it has the interactive aspect going for it.  At least one can put their thoughts down and bounce them off other people and have them challenged.  This at least is a good thing. 

My one plea to people who don't care enough to try and learn what you can about the "issues" is to stay home on election day.  If you don't care enough to learn about the world, why would you care enough to vote to affect it?  Stay home...  I'm sure something good will be on TV. 

9/8/2008 12:01 AM


Elite Pathogen

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I almost forgot.    How would a third or fourth or fifth party fix any of this?
9/8/2008 12:50 AM


Day-Saver!

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Ask the Canadians jerm....

The Conservatives now fill 127 of the 308 seats in Parliament. The Liberals have 95, Bloc Quebecois 48, the New Democrats 30 and the Greens have one seat. Three seats are held by independents, and four are vacant.


Canadian Prime Minister Dissolves Parliament

Electoral legislation that Harper helped enact after he came to power in 2006 fixed the date for the next election in October 2009, but a loophole allows the prime minister to ask the governor general to dissolve Parliament.


The October 14 election will be Canada's third ballot in four years.


Must be nice to have such a flexible system!!!!
9/8/2008 1:03 AM


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My one plea to people who don't care enough to try and learn what you can about the "issues" is to stay home on election day. If you don't care enough to learn about the world, why would you care enough to vote to affect it? Stay home... I'm sure something good will be on TV.


But it is my God-Given Right, as an American to vote on election day. That is what the Constitution says, and I don't care how little I care about the world, or my country. It does not matter if I do not know who Joe Biden is, Nancy Pelosi, or John Boehner, or where the Republic of Georgia is, or where Khazakstan is, or where Canada, or how many Congressional Seats there are, or how many amendments to the Constitution there are. All that matters is I have the right to vote and I pay taxes and therefore I will vote.......

oh wait.....last time I checked, less 2/5 of those eligible to vote did.

National Voter Turnout in Federal Elections - 1960 - 2006

Fact is, we haven't even hade a 60 percent turnout in 40 years. I think jerm, it's safe to say that many of those who don't care don't vote. I am not entirely sure if these numbers are a good thing.

Not only are we a decadent society, we don't exactly hold our leaders accountable either.
9/8/2008 11:40 AM


Elite Pathogen

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Locus Coeruleus (9/8/2008)
Ask the Canadians jerm....

The Conservatives now fill 127 of the 308 seats in Parliament. The Liberals have 95, Bloc Quebecois 48, the New Democrats 30 and the Greens have one seat. Three seats are held by independents, and four are vacant.


Canadian Prime Minister Dissolves Parliament

Electoral legislation that Harper helped enact after he came to power in 2006 fixed the date for the next election in October 2009, but a loophole allows the prime minister to ask the governor general to dissolve Parliament.


The October 14 election will be Canada's third ballot in four years.


Must be nice to have such a flexible system!!!!

If you like it... well tough .  I think that is a major flaw with the parlimentary system, and then made worse by multiple parties.  Do they ever get anything done?  Like I've said, the more parties you have the less efficient government is.  Whether that's a good thing or not is the question I suppose.  It's a spectrum.  On the one side you have authoritarianism with one party and on the other you have pure democracy which is inefficient.  It's like in a Dgame when everyone has to vote on something, we never get past the first hundred turns but when we set up a dictatorship, things move along nicely... unless there's some other glitch in the system.  Anyway, I'm not advocating a single party dictatorship because in reality there is a significant loss of freedom.  Two parties give us choices yet don't bog us down in us going a hundred different directions.  There's only two directions to choose from.

But it is my God-Given Right, as an American to vote on election day. That is what the Constitution says, and I don't care how little I care about the world, or my country. It does not matter if I do not know who Joe Biden is, Nancy Pelosi, or John Boehner, or where the Republic of Georgia is, or where Khazakstan is, or where Canada, or how many Congressional Seats there are, or how many amendments to the Constitution there are. All that matters is I have the right to vote and I pay taxes and therefore I will vote.......

Not sure how serious you are but I'll respond as though it were serious.  With rights come responsibilities.  If you are not responsible to know what you are voting for, you shouldn't vote.  Not saying you should have your right to vote taken away, just that you shouldn't excercise that right.  We've become so preocupied with rights that we've forgotten our responsibilities. 

9/8/2008 4:25 PM


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About the voter turnout, I recently read that America's diversity plays a huge role in low voter turnout numbers and community activism. As you say LC, most people would rather sit and watch television. lol
9/8/2008 6:13 PM


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I think that is a major flaw with the parlimentary system, and then made worse by multiple parties.  Do they ever get anything done?
As opposed to Congress?   

Lowest public approval rate of a Congress EVER and still getting lower.

9/8/2008 10:03 PM


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jerm (9/8/2008)
Locus Coeruleus (9/8/2008)
Ask the Canadians jerm....

The Conservatives now fill 127 of the 308 seats in Parliament. The Liberals have 95, Bloc Quebecois 48, the New Democrats 30 and the Greens have one seat. Three seats are held by independents, and four are vacant.


Canadian Prime Minister Dissolves Parliament

Electoral legislation that Harper helped enact after he came to power in 2006 fixed the date for the next election in October 2009, but a loophole allows the prime minister to ask the governor general to dissolve Parliament.


The October 14 election will be Canada's third ballot in four years.


Must be nice to have such a flexible system!!!!


If you like it... well tough . I think that is a major flaw with the parlimentary system, and then made worse by multiple parties. Do they ever get anything done? Like I've said, the more parties you havethe less efficient government is. Whether that's a good thing or not is the question I suppose. It's a spectrum. On the one side you have authoritarianism with one party and on the other you have pure democracy which is inefficient. It's like in a Dgame when everyone has to vote on something, we never get past the first hundred turns but when we set up a dictatorship, things move along nicely... unless there's some other glitch in the system. Anyway, I'm not advocating a single party dictatorship because in reality there is a significant loss of freedom. Two parties give us choices yet don't bog us down in us going a hundred different directions. There's only two directions to choose from.


I really don't know jerm. Do they ever get anything done? I'm not too well tuned to the day-in day-out affairs of Canadian government. I'm informed enough to catch the bigger things happening like this, but as far as the rest of their lot, I really don't know.

To echo NC though, I think you could well apply the questions to our congress. Do they ever get anything done?


But it is my God-Given Right, as an American to vote on election day. That is what the Constitution says, and I don't care how little I care about the world, or my country. It does not matter if I do not know who Joe Biden is, Nancy Pelosi, or John Boehner, or where the Republic of Georgia is, or where Khazakstan is, or where Canada, or how many Congressional Seats there are, or how many amendments to the Constitution there are. All that matters is I have the right to vote and I pay taxes and therefore I will vote.......


Not sure how serious you are but I'll respond as though it were serious. With rights come responsibilities. If you are not responsible to know what you are voting for, you shouldn't vote. Not saying you shouldhave your right to vote taken away, just that you shouldn't excercise that right. We've become so preocupied with rights that we've forgotten our responsibilities.[/quote]

Half serious, half not. Obviously those sorts of statements do not apply to me or to you or most of the participants here....but I more or less agree with you here. It's a touchy subject in my mind, because for a long time in this country too many people were not allowed the right to vote because of their skin color or their gender, in some cases even their age. I will repeat though, that I think that there are a lot of people in this country that are, in fact, not responsible enough to know what they are voting for, so in fact, they do not vote. The voter turn out percentages tell me that much.
What I hate just is much is when I hear the sentiment that if people don't like the candidates in the republicrat parties that they will sit out the election, AS IF THERE WERE NO OTHER CHOICES!!!!! C'mon people there are several other choices. It's just that they aren't mainstream, the media shuts them out, the sheeple are led to believe that they HAVE TO vote for a Democrat or Republican, else they are wasting their vote, etc. etc. etc. That is the problem I have with the 2 party system. I mean seriously, could things get any slower if another party or two gained some prominence. I think not. Nothing else, it will spice things up a bit and this country is in need of some spice!
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