Why is Darius black??
1BC Civ Forums
1BC Civ Forums
Home       Members    FAQ   Links
Welcome Guest ( Login | Register )
        


12»»

Why is Darius black?? Expand / Collapse
Author
Message
9/16/2008 12:58 AM
Settler

SettlerSettlerSettlerSettlerSettlerSettlerSettlerSettler

Last Seen:
10/5/2008 10:17 AM


Posts: 3
Visits: 12

Well in Civ 3 I noticed Cleopatra was depicted pretty much as an Egyptian, a pretty (stress on PRETTY! ) southern one at that since her pigmentation was pretty dark.  This obviously conflicts with historical reality since she was descended from the Ptolemaic Greeks after Alexander the Great.  So she was as European or Mediterranean probably like Greeks are today, NOT like Egyptians.

I was happy that they corrected this obvious flaw by changing her name to Hatshepsut, who was certainly very Egyptian.  Of course in reality Hatshepsut dressed and acted like a man to fool her people, since female rulers were unheard of at the time, but let's not get started on that.

But now I bought this expansion and now I find one of the add-ons, Darius I, is black???  I realize Firaxis has to appeal to as wide of the American demographic as possible, but please.  Since when did Persians have a Negroid component to their ethnic makeup??  I'm guessing all this is derived from the movie 300.   Maybe some Firaxis developer was really crazy about the movie and thought a black Persian would be so much cooler.  Or perhaps Firaxis is privy to archaeological evidence not yet made public to the rest of the world.  Cyrus, watch out for Civilization 5, historical revisionists may have you in their crosshairs...

As a disclaimer, I realize the game is still pretty heavily European, but if additional representation is desired from other ethnicities and cultures, they should have a more solid historical foundation.  As far as it not affecting the game's playability, some people less grounded in history may take what they see in the game as prima facie proof of the past.  To avoid collectively dumbing down our own civilizations, we should attempt to present as accurate a version of it as possible.

9/16/2008 2:38 AM


Queen

QueenQueenQueenQueenQueenQueenQueenQueen

Last Seen:
Today @ 1:00 AM


Posts: 6,858
Visits: 11,136

Interesting first post. Welcome to 1BC! I agree that if a game is going to be based on history it should at least be as factual as possible. Although it wasn't something I really took issue with when I noticed it.
9/16/2008 8:05 AM


Game slut

Game slut

Last Seen:
Yesterday @ 10:45 PM


Posts: 9,131
Visits: 11,087

Great first post. Welcome 1BC.

Most of the time they seem to get the phenotypes about right. But I agree with you that the Cleo in Civ3 was just not accurate. I also agree that Darius is a bit peculiar. However, I didn't really think he looks African, so much as Arabian.

Do you recall the Arabian leaderhead in Civ3, cannot think of his name now . . . Ibn Akbar or something like that. Dang, just cannot recall.

To me, he had a similar phenotype to that which they are showing with Darius, which I'd say is just sort of generally "Middle Eastern."

The other thing to consider is that, some of the images of Gods and Kings from the earlier periods in the Mesopotamian if not Persian area show individuals with phenotypic features that are somewhat more "negroid" in character. I'm recalling a stele of Gilgamesh

9/16/2008 8:29 AM


WE WILL DESTROY YOU

WE WILL DESTROY YOU

Last Seen:
3/11/2010 10:53 AM


Posts: 6,812
Visits: 31,300

The Arabian.... Abu Bakr, maybe?
9/16/2008 8:52 AM


Game slut

Game slut

Last Seen:
Yesterday @ 10:45 PM


Posts: 9,131
Visits: 11,087

Yeah, Abu Bakr.

Can you guys see that image I posted?

Anyway, while I agree Darius is not exactly an expected phenotype, he might not be that inaccurate. He does kindof appear like an Arabian or Middle Eastern look.

9/16/2008 9:49 AM
Settler

SettlerSettlerSettlerSettlerSettlerSettlerSettlerSettler

Last Seen:
10/5/2008 10:17 AM


Posts: 3
Visits: 12

I appreciate the warm welcome to the site.

I see your point about the Middle Eastern phenotype being perhaps somewhat expansive.  But then why do Cyrus and Darius look like they are completely different races then?  They were from the same ruling Achaimenid dynasty so one would assume they would look somewhat similar.

By the way, in ancient times, I don't think Middle Easterners looked the way they do today.  Part of their ethnic makeup today stems from the Arab conquests which probably introduced a somewhat darker pigmentation.  Sorry I don't have any sources immediately to back that up, but I get the feeling most of the region was originally somewhat Greek or Mediterranean like in ethnicity.

9/16/2008 11:19 AM


Game slut

Game slut

Last Seen:
Yesterday @ 10:45 PM


Posts: 9,131
Visits: 11,087

That is an interesting question. Of course for most of these "ethnic" or "racial" physical traits, there are not clear boundaries, but instead there are clines

A cline is a gradual change of a character or feature (phenotype) in a species over a geographical area, often as a result of environmental heterogeneity

Because of this, and the repeatedly overlapping and inter-mixing waves of migrations of people from various regions over the last 50 or 100 thousand years, it is frequently difficult to define anything like boundaries for particular human phenotypes.

The Middle East in particular, as a crossroads of the World is bound to have had a high rate of blending of people.

9/16/2008 8:10 PM


Piscata Rosea 4 4 5

Piscata Rosea 4 4 5

Last Seen:
Today @ 6:56 AM


Posts: 3,296
Visits: 8,260

Welcome Themistocles

A very interesting question, indeed. I wondered about this too.

I just assumed Cyrus reflected the more Mediterranean/Greek ethnic group, whereas Darius was the more African/Midde Eastern type.

9/16/2008 8:26 PM


WE WILL DESTROY YOU

WE WILL DESTROY YOU

Last Seen:
3/11/2010 10:53 AM


Posts: 6,812
Visits: 31,300

Yes. Recall that Persia, was an empire, a series of empires really, that spanned many nations. The darker skin could have come from Africa, it could also have come from India/Pakistan/Afghanistan as well.
9/17/2008 3:27 PM


Like the hair cut?

Like the hair cut?

Last Seen:
2/22/2010 8:39 AM


Posts: 1,992
Visits: 8,055

Well, I don't know if you guys saw the movie 300 but Xerxes (Darius son) looked 'too black' for me as well. I assume both Darius and Xerxes should look like the arabs we see in Turkey and Iraque nowadays which does not correspond to the image in the civ game and the movie 300.
« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

12»»

Reading This Topic Expand / Collapse
Active Users: 0 (0 guests, 0 members, 0 anonymous members)
No members currently viewing this topic.
Forum Moderators: Sean, Zone, Winner, maniacalmonkey, Comedy Dave, cleopatra143, RabiAkiva, mongoose201

Permissions Expand / Collapse

All times are GMT -5:00, Time now is 7:13am


Execution: 0.094. 8 queries. Compression Disabled.
© 2005 Take-Two Interactive Software and its subsidiaries. All rights reserved. Sid Meier's Civilization IV, Civ, Civilization, 2K Games, the 2K Games logo, and Take-Two Interactive Software are all trademarks and/or registered trademarks of Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Developed by Firaxis Games. Firaxis Games and the Firaxis Games logo are a registered trademark of Firaxis Games, Inc.

web stats